OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[ATV PRO]

This is a response to a thread from Wayne Mooradian of PEP Suspension in the USA .

LEN,

THINKING LIKE THAT IS WHY I AM IN BUSINESS.THESE COMPANIES LIKE TO DOWNGRADE OUR ACHIEVEMENTS BUT ALL WANT TO CLAIM THEY HAVE THE SAME TYPE OF SYSTEMS. WE ARE CURRENT AND PAST U.S. AND FOREIGN NATIONAL AND WORLD CHAMPIONS EVERY YEAR SINCE WE RELEASED THE THE ZPS SYSTEM IN 1997. NO ONE IN THE INDUSTRY CAN CLAIM THAT.

THE FOX EVOL MEANS ''EXTRA VOLUME''. WHEN THE SHOCK COMPRESSES,THE LOW PRESSURE CHAMBER RISES IN PRESSURE.
THIS PRESSURE CONTROLS THE SPRING RATE AND LOAD WHICH IS PARABOLICALY PROGRESSIVE.
TO PREVENT THE PRESSURE RISE WHICH IS THE SPRING FROM BECOMING TOO FIRM, THE EXTRA VOLUME CHAMBERS PISTONS BEGINS MOVING TO OPEN UP THE CHAMBER TO SOFTEN THE SPRING RATE / LOAD AT THE LAST 1/3 GENERALLY OF TRAVEL WHICH IS THE POINT THAT BOTH PRESSURE EQUALIZE, WHICH THEN SOFTENS THE TRAVEL ON DOWN TO BOTTOM. SOME PROS
HAVE TO MAXIMIZE THE EVOL CHAMBERS PRESSURE OUT TO STOP BOTTOMING WHICH MAKES IT A SINGLE CHAMBER SHOCK LIKE THE STANDARD FOX FLOAT. IF YOU LOWER THE LOW PRESSURE THE ATV LOWERS BUT IS SOFT AND BOTTOMS BECAUSE SPRING RATE RISE AND LOAD ALSO SOFTENED. THIS ALSO CAUSES EXCESSIVE CHASSIS ROLL. BOTH NEGATIVELY AFFECT RIDE ABILITY.
IF YOU INCREASE THE LOW PRESSURE THE ATV RISES BUT THEN BECOMES TO STIFF AROUND MID TRAVEL. THIS IS CLEARLY NOT PEP ZPS WHICH HAS THE SAME
SPRING RATE AT ANY HEIGHT. SPRING RATE AND HEIGHT ARE INDEPENDENT.
THAT IS PART OF WHY PEP ZPS IS UNIQUE.

AXIS PRS IS RATHER COMPLICATED ANTI-BOTTOMING DAMPING CONTROL
ASSEMBLY. WE DESIGNED AND MADE PROTOTYPES OF THIS EXACT TYPE OF SYSTEM IN 1995 AND RAN THEM IN A RACES. WE LEARNED A LOT THAT WAS
APPLIED TO OUR LTD. MASS SYSTEM WHICH IS IN EVERY PEP ZPS SHOCK.
THE PRS WORKS WELL FOR CORNERS BUT HAS DIFFICULTY IN EVEN AND UNEVEN BUMPS SAME AS OUR SYSTEM EXPERIENCED.IT IS A CHARACTERISTICS FLAW. THAT IS WHY WE NEVER RELEASED IT. IT WAS NICE THAT SOME PEOPLE RECOGNIZED IT AS OUR SYSTEM FROM BACK THEN WHEN THEY SAW IT WHEN IT CAME OUT 2007. IAN FITCH FROM NEW ZEALAND DID THE TEST RIDING FOR ME ON IT.
HE IS THE ONLY FOREIGN RIDER TO EVER WIN AN AMERICAN NATIONAL,EVER. HE WON THAT NATIONAL IN 1996 ON OR ZPS WHEN NO ONE ELSE HAD IT. AFTER THAT RACE MY OTHER RIDERS SAID HE 'S GOOD BUT NOT THAT GOOD AND WANTED ZPS. I GAVE TO TIM FARR, SHANE HITT AND HAROLD GOODMAN AND THE REST IS HISTORICAL FACT HOW OUR ZPS PERFORMS. IAN SAID THAT WILL BE THE LAST NATIONAL HE WILL WIN WHEN THOSE GUYS GOT IT.OUR ZPS MAKES THAT BIG A DIFFERENCE.

THE WHITE POWER AND OHLIN PDS TYPE SYSTEMS ENGAGE AT THE BOTTOMING
BUMPER WHICH HAS MINIMAL EFFECT. THE IMPACT HAS BLOWN THROUGH THE TRAVEL BY THAT POINT AND A SUDDEN BOTTOMING IS FELT BECAUSE IT IS JUST TOO LATE IN THE TRAVEL TO BE EFFECTIVE. I HAVE DYNO'd ALL THESE UNITS AND FIND BEST EFFECTS WITH THE BUMPERS AND IN SOME CASES IN CONJUNCTION WITH A BUMPER CUP. SOME AS IN THE CASE OF A KTM 450 / 525 XC ENGAGES THE PDS 3 MM INTO THE BUMPER WHICH IS SO SHORT IN REMAINING TRAVEL AS TO BE LESS THAN IDEALLY EFFECTIVE, HENCE THE RIDER COMPLAINTS.

AS FOR ALL THE OTHERS TCS, WORKS AND THE LIKE WITH WHAT THEY BELIEVE IS A NO PRELOAD SYSTEM, IF YOU RAISE OR LOWER THE ATV IT DOES HAVE A PRELOAD EFFECT ON THE SPRINGS.PUT IT ON A DIGITAL CHECKER AS I HAVE AND IT IS VERY NOTICEABLE. IT EVEN CHANGED ALL THEIR CROSSOVER POINTS WHICH YOU KNOW HOW MUCH THAT AFFECTS THE RIDE QUALITY. THEIR SPRING RATES AND LOADS ALL ARE AFFECTED. RAISE THE ATV IT ALSO GETS FIRM OR HARSH AND LESS COMPLIANT IN BUMPS AND PUSHES, LOWER AND THEY GET SOFTER WHICH CAUSES CHASSIS ROLL, PITCH ONTO THE NOSE IN BUMPS AND BRAKING, KICKING AND A LOOSE REAR END THAT WANTS TO SLIDE OUT AND WHEELSPIN.

THEY ALL CAN CLAIM WHAT THEY WANT BUT IT'S BUYER BEWARE.THEY CAN BUY A CLAIM OR WHAT'S PROVEN.WE DO OUR HOMEWORK AND OUR REPUTATION IS
EVERYTHING.THEY CAN BUY OURS OR THEIRS AND THEN OURS. WHICHEVER IS MORE COST EFFECTIVE.

LEN, YOU GUYS KNOW THE DIFFERENCE,YOU'VE HAD THEIRS AND OURS BOTH.

ATV NRG-PEP for all your personal suspension needs .
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[cowchaser]

Well explained from a man that knows, even that you could say he is a little one sided maybe. But I love my fox Lenny I was the first one with them out here and have never looked back, so I won't be changing in a hurry.

P.S. Lenny, your still a tosser ha ha ha
_________________
Smitty

[ATV PRO]

cowchaser wrote:

Well explained from a man that knows, even that you could say he is a little one sided maybe. But I love my fox Lenny I was the first one with them out here and have never looked back, so I won't be changing in a hurry. P.S. Lenny, your still a tosser ha ha ha

http://www.ktm.com.au/news.php?newsid=651

QUOTES

Ryan Lancaster – Pro Class


"In my first moto at Bunbury, I got the holeshot and pulled a good 30 second lead," said Lancaster. "On the last lap I had a crash which allowed Luke Gainsford to pass me for the win, and I took second.


"I made up for it in the last two motos taking the holeshot on the KTM ATV 450 SX, and then checked out for a comfortable win.


"I was looking forward to this round because I got to test out my new PEP Suspension and it handled really well. I’m leading the Championship now by approx 30 points, which has put me in a comfortable position going into the next round."


Thanks for the compliment Smitty ,you know me mate
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[Roycroft]

We love your passion lenny about your products you sell. Obviously you want to sell more shocks in Australia but your recomendation and advise isn't enough. Get more guys riding on them and Let them do the talking. Naturally you will sell more. In the mean time there is alot of people buying fox because of the products reputation worldwide. And with the dealer support in Australia from lbm, quadsquad, Hardiman ATV, legend quads not to mention some of Australia top riders. If there is any questions or issues there is more than enough people to support the consumer with technical advise, I'm with smithy I have had all brands of shocks on my bikes and won't ever look back. If any of you have time checkout the fox website it's full of great info. Then try and find the same technical info on pep?
_________________
2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[Roycroft]

Put all this aside, it's a great time for the consumer in Australia to have a choice available to them, elka, pep or fox are all available here in oz. Why buy overseas when you can get support wth your purchase here. I have heard so many bad stories of people buying shocks from ebay and online from the USA and they wernt what they were supposed to be.

Buy in Australia and support our industry and economy here not the us economy.
_________________
2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[dangerman4]

why is the general discussion section flooded with spam about ktm and pep?
surely 1 thread is enough.

can some one give me a price on the PEP setup that these guys are running at the pro level?

and also whats the ktm worth.
thanks.

[IRS 525]

dangerman4 wrote:

why is the general discussion section flooded with spam about ktm and pep? surely 1 thread is enough. can some one give me a price on the PEP setup that these guys are running at the pro level? and also whats the ktm worth. thanks.

Do you want to know how much the KTM is or what It's actually worth? IMO there's a big difference .
_________________
09 Polaris 525 IRS
Honda TRX 450R

[JONO]

dangerman4 wrote:

why is the general discussion section flooded with spam about ktm and pep? surely 1 thread is enough. can some one give me a price on the PEP setup that these guys are running at the pro level? and also whats the ktm worth. thanks.

yeah true, this is a forum, shouldn't be used for free advertising space.
Think the mods need to be a bit more restrictive.

[mickbundy]

[q[/quote]
yeah true, this is a forum, shouldn't be used for free advertising space.
Think the mods need to be a bit more restrictive.[/quote]

Are you for real you clown ??????
get rid of your avatar and signature cause it is advertising a brand you tosser
everyone on here is pushing a brand or product or a opinion that is what a forum is about

[mickbundy]

Also do you see the PRO'S pushing a brand or product NO only wannabe's having their say
They let results do the talking not dreams ,opinions or wank

[yogie]

mickbundy wrote:

[qyeah true, this is a forum, shouldn't be used for free advertising space. Think the mods need to be a bit more restrictive. Are you for real you clown ?????? get rid of your avatar and signature cause it is advertising a brand you tosser everyone on here is pushing a brand or product or a opinion that is what a forum is about

[/quote]




while advertising here is confined to certain areas , I feel if there was an atempt to advertise has failed because of the negative coments about it. But I'll keep an eye out on here and see what happens.

or if anyone wants to send me a free set of the shocks to suit a 2005 kfx700 and say some fox, I'll compare them and get back to you... while this could be seen as graft and corruption, I dont.
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[yogie]

Also I feel this is more suited to the technical section.
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[t&l performance]

yogie wrote:

mickbundy wrote: [qyeah true, this is a forum, shouldn't be used for free advertising space. Think the mods need to be a bit more restrictive. Are you for real you clown ?????? get rid of your avatar and signature cause it is advertising a brand you tosser everyone on here is pushing a brand or product or a opinion that is what a forum is about

while advertising here is confined to certain areas , I feel if there was an atempt to advertise has failed because of the negative coments about it. But I'll keep an eye out on here and see what happens.

or if anyone wants to send me a free set of the shocks to suit a 2005 kfx700 and say some fox, I'll compare them and get back to you... while this could be seen as graft and corruption, I dont. [/quote]
make that 2 sets then these 2 opinions how good they (say) they are they will be tested on the kfx,s for pure heavy abuse

[yogie]

700quad wrote:

[make that 2 sets then these 2 opinions how good they (say) they are they will be tested on the kfx,s for pure heavy abuse

hey watch the "heavy" word please... I'm a little sensistive to that word, Dangerman DO NOT reply at all, it might disapear.
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[brad0080]

mickbundy wrote:

Also do you see the PRO'S pushing a brand or product NO only wannabe's having their say They let results do the talking not dreams ,opinions or wank

PRO's push brands more then anyone else.People spend $25000+ on their ATV's to be competitive in the pro class. If someone approaches you to be part of a factory backed team in which everything, or part there of is paid for, wouldn't you promote the product till your blue in the face. Brands aim at the points leaders in a championship from previous years.Your'e already the best rider in the championship. Why not get paid for it. Like you said Mickbundy " They let results do the talking not dreams". They already have the results, why not benefit from it. Take a look at the motorcross and supercross in the USA. When they are on the podium they promote the crap out of there sponsors why, cause they get paid to.

Not all people on this forum are pushing a brand, product or opinion. People are on here to learn. To learn about technical issues, new products and unbiased opinions on accessories that they pay hard earned cash for.

The KTM and PEP's suspension topics are becoming a joke.

Thanks

Brad

[fossil800R]

brad0080 wrote:

Not all people on this forum are pushing a brand, product or opinion. People are on here to learn. To learn about technical issues, new products and unbiased opinions on accessories that they pay hard earned cash for. Thanks Brad

Yes there doesn't seem to be much of this anymore on this forum. 14 pages of crap about KTM and potentially another 14 on the cards about PEP suspension but legitimate technical question posted on the boards with little or no feedback from the guys with the knowledge.
_________________
I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it!!!

[Huskygoat]

I agree Totally Fossil ... There is are little group of people who think they own quad riding in Australia.. They push there own lessor quality products as the best .. but a couple of years down the track the mainstream (clubman riders) aren't buying there rubbish anymore . Because they were ripped off so many times . I have never owned a set of peps but would like too one day . They are too expensive for me to buy new.

This is still the best Site Fossil . I haven't read anything of any value on the others.

Everybody likes to make there quad a little different to the next one.. I like that.. Its Called ..PRIDE and LOYALITY ... which none of these paid guys have.. because the next year when they change brands they tell the same lies about their next employer.



Huskygoat
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[yogie]

Huskygoat wrote:

I agree Totally Fossil ... There is are little group of people who think they own quad riding in Australia.. They push there own lessor quality products as the best .. but a couple of years down the track the mainstream (clubman riders) aren't buying there rubbish anymore . Because they were ripped off so many times . I have never owned a set of peps but would like too one day . They are too expensive for me to buy new. This is still the best Site Fossil . I haven't read anything of any value on the others. Everybody likes to make there quad a little different to the next one.. I like that.. Its Called ..PRIDE and LOYALITY ... which none of these paid guys have.. because the next year when they change brands they tell the same lies about their next employer. Huskygoat

In the quad world there are racers and then there are trail riders, So who has the most fun, the least amount of stress and can agree to dissagree...




_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[Linc]

PEP make good stuff (actually excelent stuff) we all know that; so do FOX and while Lenny boy attempts to tech talk his way to the front of the pack I really dont think he does his cause any good......he was just as passionate when rideing other brands.

Everyone knows its not the brand its the setup. IMO this is where the FOX-EVOL shocks shine as they are easily adjustable; you never have to have them re-valved or re-sprung there for you never need to send them to a specialist for work.

The Pro guys may have good access to info and parts but the general public does't ; even if I knew how to re-build shocks I dont have all the parts and access to nitrogen to re-gas them.

........I have Elkas and am backed by no one as I pi$$ everyone off equally.

[Overlord]

Gee Huskygoat, I have not heard a truer statment in my life in you first comment.




Regards Overlord

[ATV PRO]

fossil700R wrote:

brad0080 wrote: Not all people on this forum are pushing a brand, product or opinion. People are on here to learn. To learn about technical issues, new products and unbiased opinions on accessories that they pay hard earned cash for. Thanks Brad Yes there doesn't seem to be much of this anymore on this forum. 14 pages of crap about KTM and potentially another 14 on the cards about PEP suspension but legitimate technical question posted on the boards with little or no feedback from the guys with the knowledge.

Each to their own
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[ATV PRO]

Linc wrote:

PEP make good stuff (actually excelent stuff) we all know that; so do FOX and while Lenny boy attempts to tech talk his way to the front of the pack I really dont think he does his cause any good......he was just as passionate when rideing other brands. Everyone knows its not the brand its the setup. IMO this is where the FOX-EVOL shocks shine as they are easily adjustable; you never have to have them re-valved or re-sprung there for you never need to send them to a specialist for work. The Pro guys may have good access to info and parts but the general public does't ; even if I knew how to re-build shocks I dont have all the parts and access to nitrogen to re-gas them. ........I have Elkas and am backed by no one as I pi$$ everyone off equally.

Just curious Link
Have you ever raced on a custom set up PEP for you and then set them up ?
Fox are a pain in the Front to set up and if you damage a body from stone damage and they leak air ! good luck with getting a new body !!! You may need to replace the shock .
Wayne from PEP has made a statement above and a fine one IMHO .
The rest are assumptions based on limited knowledge of each product.
I work for a living and import what I belive to be the best suspension available to everyone including Clubman Racers or Weekend warriors.
JMHO
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[ATV PRO]

brad0080 wrote:

mickbundy wrote: Also do you see the PRO'S pushing a brand or product NO only wannabe's having their say They let results do the talking not dreams ,opinions or wank PRO's push brands more then anyone else.People spend $25000+ on their ATV's to be competitive in the pro class. If someone approaches you to be part of a factory backed team in which everything, or part there of is paid for, wouldn't you promote the product till your blue in the face. Brands aim at the points leaders in a championship from previous years.Your'e already the best rider in the championship. Why not get paid for it. Like you said Mickbundy " They let results do the talking not dreams". They already have the results, why not benefit from it. Take a look at the motorcross and supercross in the USA. When they are on the podium they promote the crap out of there sponsors why, cause they get paid to. Not all people on this forum are pushing a brand, product or opinion. People are on here to learn. To learn about technical issues, new products and unbiased opinions on accessories that they pay hard earned cash for. The KTM and PEP's suspension topics are becoming a joke. Thanks Brad

You can start a thread if you like and thats no joke
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[ATV PRO]

dangerman4 wrote:

why is the general discussion section flooded with spam about ktm and pep? surely 1 thread is enough. can some one give me a price on the PEP setup that these guys are running at the pro level? and also whats the ktm worth. thanks.

So What ?

Forums have many threads and you can choose to read what you want

About 5k and 12.9 k =17.9k thats about 11k less than most other quad brands that would not be as competative.
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

[ATV PRO]

Roycroft wrote:

We love your passion lenny about your products you sell. Obviously you want to sell more shocks in Australia but your recomendation and advise isn't enough. Get more guys riding on them and Let them do the talking. Naturally you will sell more. In the mean time there is alot of people buying fox because of the products reputation worldwide. And with the dealer support in Australia from lbm, quadsquad, Hardiman ATV, legend quads not to mention some of Australia top riders. If there is any questions or issues there is more than enough people to support the consumer with technical advise, I'm with smithy I have had all brands of shocks on my bikes and won't ever look back. If any of you have time checkout the fox website it's full of great info. Then try and find the same technical info on pep?

We love your BS Mick.
I want people to experience PEP suspension that has been set up for the application .
You have never ridden on PEP set up for you ,I know because PEP have a register with each persons specification sheet and your name isnt in that register .
So how would you know ?
Look on the Ferrari formular one web site you dont see much technical info their either.
PEP is hand built not off a production line
_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd