OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

gothev8 wrote:

Looks like you all had fun. I look forward to having a go when they head to QLD.

Dont wait til it goes to QLD, you're only in Brisbane and events in NSW will likely be closer than the event in Rocky which is likely to get almost only Qlders to it if that constitutews a starting amount as no one will have done it?

Better off to travell just as far to the next Vic event.
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

jackass/450 wrote:

Some good footage there geeman - looks like I missed a good weekend away. What were the main problems you were having? What mods are you looking at doing? I thought the aim was to keep machines fairly stock. I am also guessing that there would have been some "talk" around the fire on what people were hoping that would come of this - any feed back this early. Cheers Chris

As per my post, suspension and clearance, just have to have them to make it happen.

Im just getting a kit that converts a std into a RZR's Width. Modifying the suspension springs so it doesnt pogo along the track and over rocks like a demented super ball. You can say the RZR'S machines all competed very well, none of them was bog stock with polaris only upgrades.

Im doing whatever is neccessary just to drive around safely and make it round in one piece to compete against the S'paks.

Bog stock I stated all along that the RZR could not cxompete at Bulla and we were lucky to come out of it with little damage and only minor injuries but enough soreness to put us both out.

The early knock is that everyone acknowledges there is so much more to do with their RZR than CCDA events. And as I said all along that means getting MA or CAMS involved.

Oh BTW cop a check!! lol

[url]
http://www.can-amtalk.com/forums/uploads/monthly_05_2009/post-902-1241984667.jpg [/url] Link now works!!
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[jackass/450]

if you go to www.holeshotimages.com.au there is a heap of photos from the weekend on their site.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

jackass/450 wrote:

if you go to www.holeshotimages.com.au there is a heap of photos from the weekend on their site.

Im car 16, 2 shots on the bottom of the 1st page one going out of the bog hole and the next one is all steam evaporating off the bog hole. I wore my yellow "Tiger" road helmet as it had a clear visor and I didnt have clear goggles with me.

We were still intact at that point!! The beast will look fairly different in a month!!
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[PJSRZR]

Well Guys, what a weekend and sorry I have been late giving a report. I would agree with Gavin that it was the best fun I have had on 4 wheels for a long time. Yes, we certainly still need to tweek the events to suit our vehicles, like a little less winching and perhaps a little less rocks, but in saying that, both our RZR's came back with only a couple of bruises on the rock sliders and bullbar, and my alloy bash plates underneath needed a little hammer work, otherwise there was no damage what-so-ever. Over the same tracks mind you, some of the larger 4x4's broke CV's, diffs, axles, front hubs, winch cables and more. There is no doubt in my mind a good quality SXS is one tuff cookie. The only damage to Codys RZR was a puncture and a bent rim, but man can that guy drive and he absolutely hammered his RZR all weekend too.

Yes, I would also agree with Gavin, I was very amazed at the substantial difference in the ability between a std RZR and the "S" model. (even as a dealer), it really stood out how much that wider tougher suspension of the "S" model makes over rough terrain. (Keep this in mind).

Unfortunately we can not make the next event in June in VIC or Rocky in July but we are busy planning our next event. We have also been approached by the organisers of the Cliffhanger 4x4 event (www.ironmancliffhanger.com.au) they are keen to set up a class for us this year or next year. This is a 7 day event made up of fast sandy creek runs, 5 hour GPS navigation stages, mud runs, rocky winch walls and then a combination of all of the above. We will definitely be entering next year I can't wait for that one.

Please keep in touch and asking questions, we are only too happy to help you guys get involved as I think Gavin will testify from the weekend.

Phil

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

That Ironman seems ace and the already have "buggy" on the entry form. Finally some "fast" sections, and yeah it seems off their vid we be driving straight up what they be winching out of.

A murmer in the aftermath was that some of the fourby boys werent too happy about the SXS machines taking part. Something about the original rules for set-up of CCDA were about roadworthy machines and therefore meeting a standard. Sour grapes? Just not what they paid money to see?

Dont know and now the Vic boys have set an event the same date as the Rocky event (or did I misread the dates) which would I think create a little "in fighting" if people had to split between events but the distance may just see them be OK with that.

The certainly is a bit of a rush at events and the Ironman seems like the "Finke" of CCDA so that may be a good event, its a shame its not really an ATV event as we'd maybe like to swing a few of the ATV guys our way.
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[PJSRZR]

You will usually find its often the "would be if they could be's" that might have complained about the RZR's. The rego issue has been around for years and we just dragged the arguement back out into the open again. One of the reasons that the CCDA insists on registration in their class is because it is a reasonably good way to ensure there is some form of "self regulation and scrutineering". Otherwise the CCDA would have to start making lots of different classes for the endless possibilites of what "no rego" would allow competitors to do. This then means more paperwork that someone is going to have to be paid to do, more comprehensive inspections at events that means more people involved to scrutineer thus increasing the cost of licenses and entries etc etc. NET RESULT.....would probably have ended up cheaper keeping your truck registered.

The whole arguement is all about cost, nothing else, but these guys are never keen to put their hand up and offer to help, so my sympathy level with them is low I'm afraid. One reason we can race the SXS's without this rego is because it is a limited class, and we as volunteers will work to keep the class rules and regs very basic and highly regulated, thus helping event organisers by not over complicating class rules and regs.

Believe me, the true professionals and guys that matter in the CCDA are way over the whole rego complaint and are sick of the whingers and have given up trying to explain this whole scenario to them so don't let this be a deterent, truth be known they were probably a bit embarrassed at us kicking their butts in several stages.

Phil

[Max444]

I came out for a look on the weekend and yes it was amazing what the RZR could do that some of the big comp trucks with huge winches and engines couldnt.
While the RZR s were hard at it very little damage was caused and all the drivers and navs looked like they were having a ball.
I will definatelly be there with my RZR at the next event!
_________________
Max
Predator 500

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Max444 wrote:

I came out for a look on the weekend and yes it was amazing what the RZR could do that some of the big comp trucks with huge winches and engines couldnt. While the RZR s were hard at it very little damage was caused and all the drivers and navs looked like they were having a ball. I will definatelly be there with my RZR at the next event!

Gday max, feel free to introduce yourself, put up your buggy to see its bling in the intro dection if you havent already, and get in touch for any requirements/advice for the event (sooner the better!!).

Cheers

Gavin
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[jackass/450]

The registration thing is BS anyway - how many of the comp trucks would actually pass a "raod worthy" even if they bought the wheel size back to the legal size. The same thing happened at Tuff Truck, must be a registered fully engineered vehicle - like to see people get rear wheel steer engineered LOL.

Phil - Cliffhanger would be sensational to compete in - I was only looking at some footage from previous events this week and was thinking that it would be a tonne of fun. Liked the comment about the big trucks having breakages - nothing like being able to drive your vehicle back on the trailer after a weekend of racing hahaha.

Looks like the can am utv is in fact no longer an urban legend - so the mods to the Rhino have been put on hold - I even crossed to the dark side and bought the missus a Ranger 500 to replace "her" Rhino, she even likes it as it has the three seats hahaha.

Soooooooo......... is there anyone thinking of competing in Rocky later in the year? Would be keen to have a run if other people were wanting to have a go. If the tracks where like previous years then should be all good except for one or two tracks which had some looooong winch sections.

Cheers for now

[PJSRZR]

The Can-am unit does raise some points for discussion and I would be keen to get some feedback here. One of the reasons that this whole comp scene is starting to take off is because Polaris have got right behind the whole thing. (In fact the Head Honcho of Polaris in Oz came out to watch on sat). So if other brands are going to also enjoy success in this series, it will really rely on 2 things happening, eithier a big influx of owners appears, or the company in question gets behind it all like Polaris.

We will never say no to a new brand competing, such as the Can-am, however if it does turn out to be alot different to the Polaris or Rhino, then it will probably have to compete in its own brand class, just as really I think a Rhino would have to have its own class too. Or do we have a handicapp system based on power:weight?. Having not seen a Rhino compete, but knowing the big difference in top speed to a RZR, I think Rhino owners would understand what I am saying.

Looking long term, I could see an event with a dozen RZR's, half a dozen Rhino's and maybe half a dozen Can-ams, all on the same tracks, but competing in three classes to keep it fair and even. What do you guys all think? If say the Can-am comes out with a 990cc motor, what class do we put the next model of RZR in if it comes with a bigger motor again? We all know what the yanks are like, they hate being trumped.

This scenario is going to happen one way or another, so I think we should discuss now before people go and spend big bucks on new machines that they find might not ever give them enough competition to really have some fun.

Phil

[Dino]

"Competition improves the breed" was said about touring cars in the 70's.
It's very early days yet but if it gets more people into this NEW class of racing it's a good thing.
Because the concept and the investment required, I personally believe this type of competition will only grow in Australia.
Until the other manufacturers actually release their models, any thoughts about different classes and how they compare to what is pioneering this class is just speculation.
Carry on doing what you guys have started so well and wait and see.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PJSRZR wrote:

The Can-am unit does raise some points for discussion and I would be keen to get some feedback here. One of the reasons that this whole comp scene is starting to take off is because Polaris have got right behind the whole thing. (In fact the Head Honcho of Polaris in Oz came out to watch on sat). So if other brands are going to also enjoy success in this series, it will really rely on 2 things happening, eithier a big influx of owners appears, or the company in question gets behind it all like Polaris. We will never say no to a new brand competing, such as the Can-am, however if it does turn out to be alot different to the Polaris or Rhino, then it will probably have to compete in its own brand class, just as really I think a Rhino would have to have its own class too. Or do we have a handicapp system based on power:weight?. Having not seen a Rhino compete, but knowing the big difference in top speed to a RZR, I think Rhino owners would understand what I am saying. Looking long term, I could see an event with a dozen RZR's, half a dozen Rhino's and maybe half a dozen Can-ams, all on the same tracks, but competing in three classes to keep it fair and even. What do you guys all think? If say the Can-am comes out with a 990cc motor, what class do we put the next model of RZR in if it comes with a bigger motor again? We all know what the yanks are like, they hate being trumped. This scenario is going to happen one way or another, so I think we should discuss now before people go and spend big bucks on new machines that they find might not ever give them enough competition to really have some fun. Phil

To keep my reply as short as possible> I dont believe the decisions can be made here, I have always and at every point promoted the idea of a Australian User body for SxS/RUV's as I knew these decisions were coming.

I believed it was up to the User body to give feedback to the manufacturers about what we wanted! ie similar buggies to compete in similar class. I believe that will happen anyway. There either will be a 800CC class Can Am or there will be a 1000cc Polaris with the Can Am 990cc, Polaris didnt buy swiss auto for nothing. Either that or they will have buggies that meet the current US racing rules. (BTW we all should know its not impossible to upgrade the motor of your existing RZR into the 900cc category and use bigger throttle bodies and leave the rest stock.)

We need to form an interest group to form the Association guidelines along with the interested "industry of manufacturers group members", call for financial members, (only financial members can register to race/ event at ANY event) and we develop the criteria and have the members vote (In next 4 months hopefully Polaris will have its answer out by then).

Once we have decided some classes etc we can go to CAM's MA with some power with the manufacturers and ask for our classes to be approved for events.

Approved, we can get going at events. New memebers can become financial, I assume fee's will go up once the association has been formed by the voting members so all people who have one now are incented to be involved now.

Thats what I'm laying out, nobody who doesnt want to doesnt have to be involved but if you want the chance to race on a shoestring this is the vehicle for you.

Thats always been my view of the situation and I think its as relevant now as when I first proposed it. So if other people have other idea's of how we turn this potential mess into a grade a opportunity lets hear them now!!

Cheers to all

Gavin
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[yogie]

PJSRZR wrote:

The Can-am unit does raise some points for discussion and I would be keen to get some feedback here................. Phil

the canam press release seems to be a hoax, read all.

http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f133/can-am-announces-new-utv-31126.html
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[jackass/450]

Well Gentlemen all very good points:

Phil, I understand what you are saying with regards to Polarise getting in behind the scenes and again I applaud their efforts today. However, and dont take this the wrong way and I dont mean to offend anyone, but I hope that this isn't just going to turn out to be a one brand race - I reckon that would be boring. And I hope that it is just not a ploy for more sales making rules that benifit one style of vehicle more the another.

As for making "improvements" to a stock RZR so that it is more "safe", what happens if the improvements made actually give it an advantage over a stock RZR S? Is there people with RZR S who may think that this upgrade is also "safer" for them ???

Having spent a weekend some time ago riding with a RZR S with my Rhino which I have only added a set of 2 inch off set rims I can vouch that the two machines are very far apart. So I wasn't surprised about the difference between a stock RZR and a "stock" RZR S hence why I don't beleive that the RZR S can be classed as stock.

I also applaud the fact that Polarise have some great "factory" options available as hop up parts. Bloody hell - factory turbo that is insane - but a good insane.

How do we keep this sport fair and enjoyable so that one day we could turn up to an event and have 30 plus UTV's of all brands competing?????????? Not sure, but I guess that if we all keep laying our cards on the table we might be able to develop something for all to enjoy.

I really can't see why a engine capacity limit can't be put in place for the time being along with a width and length limits. This engine limit could always be adjusted at a later point when and if manufactures start releasing larger engine capacitys. Unfortunately, without expensive engine testing everyone will have to trust everyone with regards to engine modification anyway - don't loose site a good sportsman ship - I think that this still exists.

Again this is only my thoughts.

Cheers
Chris

[Dino]

Regarging the stock RZRS...nothing wrong with clubman.
Regarding UTV's different class, same events.
Regarding modified Razors or the speculated other makes, wait and see, but probably same events and different class.

Regarding Polaris sponsorship as linked to sales...... that is a no brainer. Nothing wrong with it. That's how you do business. At this stage of what you guys are trying to start, any sponsorship is good.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

I'll go back to it and say until you start an organisation and get our own proverbial together we dont have any credibility to go in front of CAMS or MA and think we can do it alone either as a person or a brand.

Neither of them is inetersted in a one horse race and I'd venture not many of us that buy them and consider racing them are one event people.

Once again I'll argue myself blue in the face the MUST be an Australian association or we will be even more stymied than quad racing and public usage.

Build your powerbase and then take the facts and the groundswell support to the powerbrokers. Anytone whi considers this NOT their priority just bougfht a very expensive farm UTV.

Doesnt matter what we want to do, as individuals we get no-where as a group we get everywhere.
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[Dino]

I agree with you Gavin about getting organised.

But I disagree about getting in with CAMS or MA.

Whilst they do what they need to with general motorsports, including quads, I feel that niether organisation has anything to offer to further "4wd buggy competition" whilst it is still very much in it's infancy.

I strongly believe you need to get organised to set up events and vehicles to suit your own collective criteria.
Otherwise you'll end up trying to modify machines to meet a criteria which is set by people whose background and vision is far from what most potential competitors could really afford to get involved with.

The strength of these type of vehicles lies between their off-road ability and their cost.

Get it right, they'll come to the "4wd buggy competitors/association ".
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Dino wrote:

I agree with you Gavin about getting organised. But I disagree about getting in with CAMS or MA. Whilst they do what they need to with general motorsports, including quads, I feel that niether organisation has anything to offer to further "4wd buggy competition" whilst it is still very much in it's infancy. I strongly believe you need to get organised to set up events and vehicles to suit your own collective criteria. Otherwise you'll end up trying to modify machines to meet a criteria which is set by people whose background and vision is far from what most potential competitors could really afford to get involved with. The strength of these type of vehicles lies between their off-road ability and their cost. Get it right, they'll come to the "4wd buggy competitors/association ".

There's a couple of threads going which makes keeping it together a bit troublesome atm, so maybe we open a thread on organisation.

But what I said to paraphrase anpther post of mine Dino was to go to these organisations to appeal for our own class of vehicles, not to fit into theirs. They have some races I'd like to do and the only short poll Ive postsed supports entering some of the type of events available via CAMs and MA.

So yeah my only poin tin going to these organisatons is exactly that, they are already organised and all we have to do is convoince them to allow our own classes. I believe thats the fastest way in, its the way to participate in existing events instead of having the onerous duty of creating our own organisation insurance wise etc and we dont have to go looking for sponsors or crowds, we should just leverage off whats there BUT do it our way not theirs.

Well thats my point and my idea for the moment, a SxS organisation may have a different perspective.

My point is this we are young as a sport, we are not organised as a sporting organisation, every successful sport has a organisation behind it. We want to exert any influence on the growth of the sport and not let event organisaers drive what we are doing we will have to form that organisation. We want to grow slowly to stop cheque book racing, noy problems, the body can organise the classes, we have demand for super mods, we have an organisation to put down the rules.

So Im agreeing with everyone at the moment, I dont think there is any cross purposes they just need consolidation.

Cheers guys, do we have support of people to finally open a thread on organisation and enough people willing to do something about it? We need numbers to make it happen, an individual wont, we need an organisation.
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[PJSRZR]

I understand what you are saying Gavin, but CAMS and MA have far less knowledge on the issues we are discussing here than we do. The first thing they will do is throw it back on us to determine the class regs etc, so I am not sure what we are gaining there, in my opinion, the CCDA can offer what we want as a governing body and give us the freedom to determine our own sporting direction/association from there.

Yes, maybe CAMS would be nice, but it will be expensive, and right now I can think of no event that CAMS runs that I would feel comfortable doing other than maybe the CONDO event in my RZR.

Just for peoples interest, we found that my Turbo RZR did not really give us much of an edge in the overall scheme of things. Now I will admit I am not the worlds best driver, but I consider myself reasonably experienced behind the wheel of my RZR. But over a 10 minute sprint motoX enduro type stage with a mixture of terrain, Cody kicked my and everyone else's butt by almost 1 minute (including that of Wayne Smiths who designed the stage). This is what I am referring to in regards to modifications, we are still only learning what works and what doesn't, and often stock is best (for a RZR "S") anyway. I wouldn't bother fitting a turbo kit to my next one based on the cost. And thats the benefit of keeping the classes even and close, thus making it the best Team wins, not the biggest cheque book.

Please don't think that being a Polaris dealer makes me bias, I am just as keen to see other brands involved, we are just not getting much response from them/owners to be able to determine how to fit them in thats all. At present all we have to work with is working on specs and regs for RZR's at the moment.

One of the reasons we are mainly working around specs for the "S", is because it is far and away a much bigger seller than the std RZR, so it makes more sense to write the regs around the most popular seller, but of course allowing the upgrade of a std one to "S" specs. I believe Gavin is working on some cost effective ways of doing this as it mainly revolves around suspension and track width. And yes engine size restriction would be nice, but might end up a bit unfair to Can-AM if their new unit is bigger (and from my Karting days Chris, even kids like to push the rules with hidden engine size upgrades etc, so I am not sure honesty would work for long unfortunately, thats why most tracks have special CC test rooms).

Anyway please keep up the discussion and feedback. Off to Broken Hill now will be back in just over a week to continue working on the SXS racing series.

Phil

[gothev8]

This thread is like reading War and Peace - Bloody long, geeez you guys must have a heap of spare time or type really fast!!!
_________________
2012 Polaris RZR XP Turbo
2009 Polaris RZR 170

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PJSRZR wrote:

I understand what you are saying Gavin, but CAMS and MA have far less knowledge on the issues we are discussing here than we do. The first thing they will do is throw it back on us to determine the class regs etc, so I am not sure what we are gaining there, in my opinion, the CCDA can offer what we want as a governing body and give us the freedom to determine our own sporting direction/association from there.

Phil

Youre agreeing with what Im saying here, we are jus saying it deifferently, Im saying we need our own organisation to determine our own classifications and just go to them to these organisations. So anyway it wouldnt matter if we were in complete disagreement whuich we are't in any way, "our" organisation needs to be in place and that will set the tone.

I'm good at starting things, project initition is my corporate speciality, admin I'll leave to those who do that, have done that and do it well.

But we need an organisation. I'll start a thread....
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

gothev8 wrote:

This thread is like reading War and Peace - Bloody long, geeez you guys must have a heap of spare time or type really fast!!!

Well we dont live in QLD!!

Nah mate, old habits from a corporate lifestyle gone bad!! hehe
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au

[jackass/450]

gothev8 wrote:

This thread is like reading War and Peace - Bloody long, geeez you guys must have a heap of spare time or type really fast!!!

Hey mate - I get my PA to do the typing hahaha no only joking.

As for the comments thus far .....................

I agree that we need to form some sort of UTV / Side X Side organisation and club. I also feel that Phil is on the right track with going with CCDA and don't beleive that "at this point in time" should need to chase CAMS for a class of our own. CCDA events include:

- Winch Challenges
- Cliffhanger - that would be sh$t hot to do
- Not sure about Outback Challenge
- Not sure about the events they have at Landcruiser Mountain Park
for any one not up to speed about the LMP events they include events like rally X - tight short course with two vehicles competing at once, mud racing - banked oval track with just enough mud to make it interesting, hill climb drags etc. Good fun

I know clubs such as the Queensland Quad Riders Club are struggerling for numbers and are trying to get a enduro style event happening at Manar Park - maybe we could affiliate with these sort of clubs and compete at these events.

As for the vehicle specs well.............. lets keep talking.

So as Gavin has suggested is it time that we all get together to sit around the fire with a white board for a think tank session?????

Cheers
Chris

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

There is now a thread open on starting an Australian organisation. so ant posts pertaining to starting or making an organisation should be posted there from this point and let this thread revert to event details as per heading.

Cheers SXS Machine riders!
_________________
www.asho.com.au for your shooting and outdoor needs
www.paracordaustralia.com - all things Paracord for outdoor adventure and craft

Tweet - ceo@futrixenterprises.com.au