OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[stu Fifty Arrrrrrrrr]

What colour you need? I think JMC stocks those hard to get parts.

[cowchaser]

Freewheely wrote:

Stuey would anyone on here know where i could get a powerband from?Mines worn out.

What colour? green, yeallow or red?
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Smitty

[Mart 300r]

Gday fellas did a little more to it.Im stuck between two ways of doing this the first pic shows the first way im thinkin of goin as its less welding to the case but im thinking it might not be a heavy enough weight there will be a shaft through that crank gear and weight, and bearings on both sides.The only welding ill have to do is build up an area underneath that gear so i can get a bearing milled into it and one for the clutch cover side.

Good paint skills ay lol

And for the 2nd way of doing it,This way involves kinda the same set up as the 1st but the 2nd crank gear will have a sprocket drive that drives a chain (hy-vo cam chain out of xr 250/500 cut and shortened to size)down to the bigger balancer weight which i think would be more effective altough this way has alot more welding and alot more moving parts that can go bang at the wrong time lol.the balancer in this setup will be machined into that solid bit of aluminium rod and have o-rings on the out side face(so no oil leaks) and the balancer itself will be bored eccentric so chain adjustment can be made


so at the end of this i think im going to go with the first way and just hope its enough weight to get rid of these arm breakin vibrations lol and if its not well its the 2nd way with alot more head scratchin welding and machining
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[Freewheely]

Martin does that hook up to the crank wheel ?Or the front wheel?
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- 86 ATC 250R-86 ATC 350X-
Aluminium laydown 200 ATC 70 Dibble Hybrid

[stu Fifty Arrrrrrrrr]

Freewheely wrote:

Martin does that hook up to the crank wheel ?Or the front wheel?

steering wheel

[PeteW]

I'd be sticking with the first idea, or a better adjusment for the chain drive (like a manual cam chain tensioner) but I think you need to calculate the amount of weight you need to use to balance with maybe?
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www.thumbpump.com
www.dirtcomp.com.au

[HaggLE]

Its going to suck alot of horsepower out of it if it is totally submerged in oil.
If that counter balancer bit is lower than the whole gearbox it will be the lowest point and trapping all the oil.

Something you may have not thought of.

[Mart 300r]

HaggLE wrote:

Its going to suck alot of horsepower out of it if it is totally submerged in oil. If that counter balancer bit is lower than the whole gearbox it will be the lowest point and trapping all the oil. Something you may have not thought of.

I have thought of it.Its one of those things im just gunna have to wait an see what happens.i will be runnin an oil line back to the gearbox if this is an issue cominin from the balancer housing because that balancer will kind of act like a pump the oil will get thrown hence goin back through the line and back to the gearbox.Ya gotta remember jye this is a 500cc 2stroke not a 90 trike engine, robbing power wont be to much of a prob alittle bit less horsepower is better than not being able to hold the handle bars because of vibration
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[4stroker]

plenty of ways to make more power mate but only this will stop the vibes, your on the right track!

more pics?

what are you actually using for a c/b? quadzilla one or similar, or are you making complete new one? how have you calculated correct shape/weight etc?

mark.
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2002 SE Banshee

[1sick6]

would adding a cylinder help eliminate the vibration?

http://www.trickracing1.com/Twin_CR500.html
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He Who Dies With The Most Toys, Wins

[Mart 300r]

1SICK6 wrote:

would adding a cylinder help eliminate the vibration? http://www.trickracing1.com/Twin_CR500.html

Not quite sure mate if it did it would have to be a 180 degree crank.but still you would then have two cranks spinning the same way so the anertia(spelling)would be huge.
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[PeteW]

Mart 300r wrote:

1SICK6 wrote: would adding a cylinder help eliminate the vibration? http://www.trickracing1.com/Twin_CR500.html Not quite sure mate if it did it would have to be a 180 degree crank.but still you would then have two cranks spinning the same way so the anertia(spelling)would be huge.

if you had a 180 single crank then it would have primary balance (like a banshee), if you had 2 separate cranks with their own flywheels then the gyroscopic force from the engine rotation would be huge (its why some of the old V4 500 GP bikes ran twin cranks that contra-rotated to counter the gyro force)
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www.thumbpump.com
www.dirtcomp.com.au

[Mart 300r]

Hey just abit more of an update got the hole milled for the bearing.also welded my plates to inclose all this setup i used 10mm plate for strength around the balancer bearings also to give enough meat to tap my cover bolts into.now just alittle more milling including facing off the plates i put on there to the same height as the original case and than shes almost done.Also im stoked im 99% sure its all going to fit back in the frame without any mods so fingers crossed.And a big thanks to glen (family friend)for his time and machines throughout all this without it theres no way i could be doing all this cheers mate







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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[Mart 300r]

4stroker wrote:

plenty of ways to make more power mate but only this will stop the vibes, your on the right track! more pics? what are you actually using for a c/b? quadzilla one or similar, or are you making complete new one? how have you calculated correct shape/weight etc? mark.

Its actually the balancer out of an xr500 mate.Im not real sure on a formula or how they work out the weights needed there would have to be a correct formula but trying to work it out is a diff story its just going to have to be a trial and error thing(knowing my luck it will be error lol)
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[Dino]

Mart300r, you remind me of old Bert in that movie; "The Worlds Fastest Indian" Good on yer!!
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Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Quad]

how are you timing it.
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Im not the sharpest tool in the shed

[doorslammer]

Mart 300r wrote:

Its actually the balancer out of an xr500 mate.Im not real sure on a formula or how they work out the weights needed there would have to be a correct formula but trying to work it out is a diff story its just going to have to be a trial and error thing(knowing my luck it will be error lol)

Quad wrote:

how are you timing it.

by the sounds of it, trial and error. but honestly he will just be able to take the balacer (or clutch) cover off and just move it a tooth at a time till it feels good

very nice project by the way. do you know if the c/b is similar to the one in the quadzilla. that sounds like the type of balancer you after, just wondering if they are similar in weight/size to what you are using?
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01 Banshee
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway

[Mart 300r]

Quad wrote:

how are you timing it.

ive got two adjustments i can go one tooth on the crank gears back and forward or the actual weight is on a spline to so i can move that back or forward a tooth all it has to be is opposite the piston.at tdc the weight has to be exactly at bdc.and of course spinning in opposite direction.
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[Mart 300r]

doorslammer wrote:

Mart 300r wrote: Its actually the balancer out of an xr500 mate.Im not real sure on a formula or how they work out the weights needed there would have to be a correct formula but trying to work it out is a diff story its just going to have to be a trial and error thing(knowing my luck it will be error lol) Quad wrote: how are you timing it. by the sounds of it, trial and error. but honestly he will just be able to take the balacer (or clutch) cover off and just move it a tooth at a time till it feels good very nice project by the way. do you know if the c/b is similar to the one in the quadzilla. that sounds like the type of balancer you after, just wondering if they are similar in weight/size to what you are using?

never had a quadzilla one apart mate i know they are on a key way and were known to sheer the key abit.
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[doorslammer]

you going to put in a electric start while your there. cant be too much more then what you have allready done
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01 Banshee
Never take life seriously. Nobody gets out alive anyway

[4stroker]

doorslammer wrote:

you going to put in a electric start while your there. cant be too much more then what you have allready done

fark yeah! you should adapt an electric start off a 300exc-e.. mill a compression release into the head and your set..

while your at it, fuel inject it with a micro squirt set up like some blokes have used on Rz350s and banshees, and run it on E85...

hmmm fuel injected, counter balanced electric start CR500... do it!!

i was gonna say you'd make a fortune, but you probably wont lol... i bet youd sell enough to cover r&d and manufacturing costs though... the off road buggy crowd (edge products etc) and the yanks would love em!
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2002 SE Banshee

[4stroker]

Mart 300r wrote:

Its actually the balancer out of an xr500 mate.Im not real sure on a formula or how they work out the weights needed there would have to be a correct formula but trying to work it out is a diff story its just going to have to be a trial and error thing(knowing my luck it will be error lol)

hmm im assuming it would have alot to do with offsetting the weight of the piston and con-rod? is that the case mart?

the xr500 and cr500 have the exact same bore and stroke, so i wonder if the piston/rod weights are the same... you'd think they'd be similar but i cant see them being exactly the same.

i hope it works straight away for ya, but worst case scenario is you have to try a few different weights and shapes of the actual balancer... not too hard considering what you have already accomplished!
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2002 SE Banshee

[dynamitediscodave]

Dino wrote:

Mart300r, you remind me of old Bert in that movie; "The Worlds Fastest Indian" Good on yer!!

bert will be asking Mart for idea's

[Mart 300r]

4stroker wrote:

Mart 300r wrote: Its actually the balancer out of an xr500 mate.Im not real sure on a formula or how they work out the weights needed there would have to be a correct formula but trying to work it out is a diff story its just going to have to be a trial and error thing(knowing my luck it will be error lol) hmm im assuming it would have alot to do with offsetting the weight of the piston and con-rod? is that the case mart? the xr500 and cr500 have the exact same bore and stroke, so i wonder if the piston/rod weights are the same... you'd think they'd be similar but i cant see them being exactly the same. i hope it works straight away for ya, but worst case scenario is you have to try a few different weights and shapes of the actual balancer... not too hard considering what you have already accomplished!

Alot of 4 strokes actually use heavier weights due to more moving parts all moving the same way valve train etc.although the xr's actually have two balancers the one im using and another off the main shaft of the gear box so im thinking im goin to need more weight but only time will tell.And it can only make it better any way.

AS for the elec start it would be possible a bloke on the edge products was selling a kx 500 with custom elec start but then youve gotta deal with batteries and more harnesses.im still young i can deal with kick starting it lol.Another thing alot of people dont know is that just above the exhuast ports on the 500's are to tiny little chamfers that actually releases pressure when your starting them and as these motors get older and a couple of bores later these chamfers get machined out of the bore hence no release on compression this is when many of shins get smashed lol.

I love that worlds fastest indian movie crack up.Another good movie well kinda a doco is on a bloke called john britan from new zealand this bloke is a freak with the stuff he built.
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1984 ATC 300R, 1986 TRX 500R,1984 ATC 200X, ATC 70 WITH CUSTOM LAYDOWN 250R ENGINE, 125CC CUSTOM THUMPSTER TRIKE

[dynamitediscodave]

can we see a movie deal soon for you mart? lol