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[bowser]

2nd ride, pulled it off to clean and found this below. Can't work out what the hell has happened, i'm using a aluminium airbox so can eliminate heat from my barkers, i'm using the same filter oil as always used with my K&N filter. Outerwear filter screen looks new.
Goes almost all the way around the filter also.
check inside the intake and it has a shitload of little metal wire bits in it from the filter, one can only assume many of them have already found there way into the motor.
Have contacted FCI and awaiting their response, not happy Jan!

Has this happened to anyone else before?
What would have caused it?





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08 Raptor 700SE

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[noodles]

Vibration..
I havent seen it on a quad but when i used to race jetski's I had it happen to a few of them . You get a weird sort of harmonic vibration at a certain rpm and it just shakes these things to pieces. Check all your engine mounts to make sure they are tight and try looking at it with different rpm to see what i mean, it was pretty obvious on the ski's. dunno what the fix would be if its not the mounts.
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[bigjon]

It kinda looks like you twisted it to install on the intake. For that to have happened though you would have had to twist pretty aggressively as there an 8 ply filter and more rigid than the K&N. You might not have noticed it due to the outerwear. Is the filter a tight fit?

Also, aren't the FCI filters red?

Check your carby for any signs of metal. Also change your oil and check for metal as well.
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Don't close your eyes during the crash, you'll miss the best part

[bowser]

Vibration, that's interesting and quiet possible.

It's a FCI (fuel customs intake) from the states and not bloody cheap either, has a bracket right near the clamp to help stop vibration.

looking at all the little metal bits inside the intake pipe, i'm guessing the high comp 105mm piston and sleeve will be coming sooner rather than later.

be interesting to see what FCI replies with
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08 Raptor 700SE

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[bowser]

took it to work today and showed our reliability engineer and he is positive it is caused from the filter sucking in and callapsing on itself.
the metal in the intake is from the filter guaze from the inside of the filter where is has also failed.

spoke to FCI, new filter and box on the way...at my cost
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[bigjon]

What reason did they give for the failure?

Hop on YFZTECH, go into the Fuel Customs forum and post your problem with pics.

http://www.yfztech.com/forum/index.php?s=9c8d15db720fdeac7b50cabcf51a4ac2&showforum=54
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[noodles]

bowser wrote:

took it to work today and showed our reliability engineer and he is positive it is caused from the filter sucking in and callapsing on itself. the metal in the intake is from the filter guaze from the inside of the filter where is has also failed. spoke to FCI, new filter and box on the way...at my cost

I dont believe the collapsing theory , there is no way that is gonna start to suck flat unless it was completely blocked and i still dont reckon it would collapse then anyway , just stop the motor running..
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[greenhuman]

Its been twisted IMO.

[Quad]

the filter at the tape, is the top or bottom .

duz it move when tightened up .

is it hiting any part of the filter box.

Have you forced it on,then tightened it up.

[bowser]

Not sure if it was top or bottom as it still had the outerwear filter on it when i pulled it off i noticed the damage then.

certainly not from twisting, these things are still as. Has atleast 1/2 inch clearance around all the filter and no way the filter could hit the box at all.

it has to be from the filter sucking in on itself, when you press it in the simulate this it bends in heaps easy.
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08 Raptor 700SE

Cheap, Fast, Reliable....Pick any 2

[Linc]

noodles wrote:

bowser wrote: took it to work today and showed our reliability engineer and he is positive it is caused from the filter sucking in and callapsing on itself. the metal in the intake is from the filter guaze from the inside of the filter where is has also failed. spoke to FCI, new filter and box on the way...at my cost I dont believe the collapsing theory , there is no way that is gonna start to suck flat unless it was completely blocked and i still dont reckon it would collapse then anyway , just stop the motor running..

I wouldn't rule out a collapsing filter as I've seen it many times on turbo charged cars.....looks exactly the same.

Do a search and you'll find it's a pretty big issue in the turbo car world; some filter manufacturers now make stronger filters specifically for this application.

[Ozpilot]

Looks like a combination of the above to me - a stress line created by a bit of a twist during fitting then it has vibrated and/or sucked in (and out and in and out) to fracture the wire.

[LC4]

A bit of advise - UNI FILTER UNI FILTER UNI FILTER

[bullet]

I couldn't see it suckig in either.
Yeah a turbo engine might, because a compressor wheel could pull way below atmospheric pressure with turbine wheel driving it, and still supply air to the engine.
If your quad did this you might be lucky to have 1/4 of the normal HP until it sucked in.
It would almost certaily run rich enough to flood and stall the engine.

I have seen it before, but don't know what causes it.
Make sure you tell when you work it out
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Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[bowser]

strange you say it would run rich as the weekend before was the first ride with this filter and i was also trying a new tune. On the beach at Stockton i only got 50km's from a tank of fuel, which is less than half normal.
I thought it was the tune so i put the old tune back in (via PC3).
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Last edited by bowser on Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:37 pm; edited 1 time in total

[hustleratv.com.au]

LC4 wrote:

A bit of advise - UNI FILTER UNI FILTER UNI FILTER

agreed ,never had anything get passed one of those filters.
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[bowser]

As requested Pictures of box and filter installed.
As you can see there is adequate clearance on the RHS which is the closest fit by far, and enough clearance under to fit my fingers with ease.
The two little holes in the box are to secure the tail light plastic bit and go no where near the filter.
The rear section is cut so it could be bent to the same profile as the tail light plastic bit.
The front bottom has about 1/2 inch clearance between the air box and the FCI supporting bracket.

Comparing this box to a FCI box, i almost think this would have more cubic capacity of air, thoughts on this?

Rubbing on the side...Not possible






RHS Clearance


LHS Clearance


Fingers easily fit under

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08 Raptor 700SE

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[bullet]

Man, I just keep looking at that 4th pick (with the filter installed)
and thinking 'what the hell could cause that'

Maybe take it to someone with a flow bench and see if they can quickly chuck it on to see if they can suck on it hard enough to collapse it inward.
Even though it is weekened now, it would be intereting to see if it tried to collapse along that same line or just hourglass in general.
And if they can suck it in, they should know whether it would even be possible for your engine to draw that much air or not.

Might only take 5 minutes to try if there is a flow bench near you.

????
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[bowser]

bullet wrote:

Man, I just keep looking at that 4th pick (with the filter installed) and thinking 'what the hell could cause that' Maybe take it to someone with a flow bench and see if they can quickly chuck it on to see if they can suck on it hard enough to collapse it inward. Even though it is weekened now, it would be intereting to see if it tried to collapse along that same line or just hourglass in general. And if they can suck it in, they should know whether it would even be possible for your engine to draw that much air or not. Might only take 5 minutes to try if there is a flow bench near you. ????

here's a video of it doing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpmTcWTfh-A
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08 Raptor 700SE

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[bushpig]

not good
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[bullet]

Wow, there's your answer then hey.
And not much load either (just revving in neutal).

Was it oiled with a suitable oil or accidentally sprayed with 'stop leak'

Hopefully your engine is still OK and a new filter is all you need
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[MADMAN55]

Hey Bowser,

I run a K&N with a Filterskin and it sucks in a little when I rev it like yours in the video but nowhere near as much as your filter. Is it a Raptor thing that they have that much suck. (if only a woman was as good )

PS. I pulled off my filter and had a look and no signs of weakness or damage to gauze. Worth checking after seeing yours.

Regards from the Madman
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[stu Fifty Arrrrrrrrr]

my filter also has the stress marks as if it has been twisted, once again not as bad as yours but still a concern.
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86 trx 250r (project).
78 atc 70.
laydown 200 atc 70.
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[bigjon]

stu j wrote:

my filter also has the stress marks as if it has been twisted, once again not as bad as yours but still a concern.

Is it an FCI filter?
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Don't close your eyes during the crash, you'll miss the best part

[stu Fifty Arrrrrrrrr]

K&N filter in mine.
_________________
86 atc 250r.
86 trx 250r (project).
78 atc 70.
laydown 200 atc 70.
71 parrot green 90 ballooooony.
81 atc 185s.