OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[cowchaser]

What do you guys think? Bullet and I will go to the grave arguing this
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Smitty

[cowchaser]

Look I'm winning
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Smitty

[Huskygoat]

we need the official rules first .. I think you have jumped the gun ... this class has heaps of potential if we can get a manufacture behind it.
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Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[47industries]

Hey Smitty, why all the passionate interest in MX all of a sudden. I thought you had retired..........
Mick@47
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The way to this man's heart is through his esky

[Hudson]

I gotta go with the first. I can't think of many people that I've seen with bikes that don't want to put a few things on them. Also the people that get the urge to race usually have been riding for a while and have bent a few things on the trails. I for one needed a new stem and bars after my first ride (showing how good I thought I was).

I understand your point of view Bullet but I would think with the new bikes that are coming out that are wider (finally following Suzukis lead) that you will be getting some more experienced riders dropping the budget and going to production. It's not really the first step class like clubman is. The nats was a good example of that. Roycroft competed in Production and Pros. You were on the top five in vets, some would argue the most competitive class there, and battled for wins all weekend in Production. Even took out a podium in the VIC titles in the again highly competitive vets class on a standard bike. I just can't agree on the bringing more people to the sport arguement for a "bone stock" Production class when they see the racing that is on display.
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You Can Fix Alot Of Things In This World But...

You Can't Fix Stupid!!!

[cowchaser]

47industries wrote:

Hey Smitty, why all the passionate interest in MX all of a sudden. I thought you had retired.......... Mick@47

It's because I care..............You know i'm all heart
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Smitty

[Gravedigger]

Lets bring out all the old shees and have some real fun boys and girls

[bullet]

I hope the 11 people who voted so far all enter Production next year.
That will be great.

All you said is right Hudson...
but remember my bike is not a stocker, it's a 'production legal' bike.
And it could go faster with a slip on, 1/2 inch wider rims and a few more bits and pieces.

So far most people who don't race the class seem to be voting for 'Intermediate' rules.
I thought we already had that class.

Looks like I'm gunna loose this one.

How do we get the guys who DON'T race to vote on what would be good for them.
Pretty hard when they are not yet club members and probably don't use this forum.

A bit like politicians voting to give themselves a pay rise
They must be right hey.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[HoleshotQR#24]

I voted for the first. I'd love to race a production class but we don't have one in SA (or the numbers to support it???) and I'm not that dedicated to travel interstate to race on a regular basis. I would be prepared to put the airbox lid back on and the spark arrestor back in if it came to it though.

Would changing rim diameter be such a concern?
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[triple"A"]

i went with the bone stock theory, i reckon if ya want manufacturer bragging rights then it's gotta be what the manufacturer provided.
by the way it would include ALL quads out of the factory too. so if you bought a narrow stocker and wanted to race it you could, but don't complain about the manufacturer race ready bikes in your class, it is racing after all

[Gaz #5]

With all the new race ready quads out now the only lossers are Honda & Kawasaki at the moment. So it should be as it comes from the factory plus nerfs and kill switch. Wheels should be the only thing u change as smitty said they bend and genuine are to expencive to replace.

[toss]

47industries wrote:

Hey Smitty, why all the passionate interest in MX all of a sudden. I thought you had retired.......... Mick@47

Has Mr Smitty retired?
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always ready to have a go at anything once

[bullet]

HoleshotQR#24 wrote:

I voted for the first. I'd love to race a production class but we don't have one in SA (or the numbers to support it???) and I'm not that dedicated to travel interstate to race on a regular basis. I would be prepared to put the airbox lid back on and the spark arrestor back in if it came to it though. Would changing rim diameter be such a concern?

Rim diameter change and trimmed plastics are two that are not allowed in the current rules.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[cowchaser]

adelaideplantandequipment wrote:

i went with the bone stock theory, i reckon if ya want manufacturer bragging rights then it's gotta be what the manufacturer provided. by the way it would include ALL quads out of the factory too. so if you bought a narrow stocker and wanted to race it you could, but don't complain about the manufacturer race ready bikes in your class, it is racing after all

Hey Kev it's got nothing to do with manufacturer bragging rights at all, it's about having a budget entry level class.

I also think that it should not be run for champoinship points over a season just as another class on the day, but thats a whole nother topic. Sorry
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Smitty

[old55]

I think production class numbers will be lifted this year?

I also agree with Smithys comment above - support class only

too many do's and too many dont's - people have to wonder why we dont have numbers for this class - nothing is uniform - each state has its own set of rules depending on where the event is held.

Just my five cents worth

[Gravedigger]

i'm all about the grass roots level of our sport and without the numbers on the ground level, ie; affordable and enjoyable FAMILY FUN we know what will happen to our sport. There will always be the fortunate ones that can and always will compete in the upper levels of the sport and get us the broader commmunity awareness and recognition but then it is up to us as an organisation to give people somewhere to then go to and become involved that is welcoming and affordable, the potential is reallyunlimited guys and girls.
Cheers Deano

[Taita24]

Hmmm always an interesting point of discussion this one. I think bone stock but allow changes to rims, tyres and bars. No re-valving shocks, no slip ons, run an air box lid and no adjustments to jetting etc etc.

Having said that when i competed in proddy i had made all adjustments that were allowable but would have been more that happy not to if the rules didnt permit.

Production class "purely my opinion" should be there for riders with small budgets who still want to compete in MX but cant justify or dont have the dollars required to race in modified classes, however it has been proven that it can be done.

The costs associated with competing in ATV racing has always been a major detriment to the sport in terms of its growth. When compared to competing in two wheel racing the costs are out of this world.

Your average rider can go out and buy any two wheel moto-crosser off the shelf, take it to the local track and be on a similar machine to the majority of other riders.

In ATV racing this is hardly the case where you may be lining up against riders (even in C-Grade) riding $30,000 plus machines. Lets face it alot of people don't earn that much in a year and certainly can't justify spending those sort of dollars even if they can afford it.

This is where production class could have become somwhere these sorts of people could have found their niche and had alot of fun but rules have been bent or changed and as was said earlier no standard set have been produced to govern everybody.

Production is always going to have fors and againsts and theirs always going to be discussion from both sides of the fence (bog stock or allow some mods). Production still has alot of potential for being a great class and with the bikes manufacturers are finally starting to produce could become highly contested in years to come.

[OZ_450]

i agree with the bog stock vote

a look at our last round shows the skill level in clubmen over the bike mods debate

1st for day was Justin smith with a stock yfz with only a wider axle
I was 2nd with only mods no lid a muffler , hiper rims , and cherry bomb , flexx bars rest of stuff on mine is bling looks
3rd was Ando with hipers , fox floats front and stadium kitted rear full system , cherry bomb ............................ so less modded to most moded results in reverse

i am undecided in all honesty as to what class to race next year as 1 /xpert really should put some shocks on and maybe some other gear that i prob cant really afford (out of budget really)
2/ vets close to same as above look at half the vets quads bombed out more then alot of the expert guys quads (out of my budget really)
3/ production class where at this stage i would have to loose my hipers (maybe a option)
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black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[noodles]

In my opinion it should be basically a factory bike with the only mods allowed to be for safety or comfort not any mods that would alter the performance of the machine. That way the machines would be on a level playing field. If i was writing the sup regs for an event (which i'm not or maybe i am who knows) the rules would be as follows for production class..

stock motor
stock exhaust (including baffle)
stock shocks
stock wheels
orignal tyre size
stock gearing


safety mods as follows
nerfs
kill switch
bar end plugs

allowable comfort mods (ie for different sized riders)
Bars / grips
stem
pegs



In my opinion any of the mods listed above would not affect the performance of the bike they would only be an ergonomic alteration to suit the rider that is on it andf therefore make it safer for the rider. the geometry and power of the quad would not change and i believe that is what a production class should be about.
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say NO! to ball sports

[yogie]

noodles wrote:

In my opinion it should be basically a factory bike with the only mods allowed to be for safety or comfort not any mods that would alter the performance of the machine. That way the machines would be on a level playing field. If i was writing the sup regs for an event (which i'm not or maybe i am who knows) the rules would be as follows for production class.. stock motor stock exhaust (including baffle) stock shocks stock wheels orignal tyre size stock gearing safety mods as follows nerfs kill switch bar end plugs allowable comfort mods (ie for different sized riders) Bars / grips stem pegs In my opinion any of the mods listed above would not affect the performance of the bike they would only be an ergonomic alteration to suit the rider that is on it andf therefore make it safer for the rider. the geometry and power of the quad would not change and i believe that is what a production class should be about.

just a stupid question from a non racer, could the motors be tagged/sealed like they do in the HQ racing by aproved mechanics by MA ??? and to oz_450 would a suzi 450 with a cherrybomb kit on it be regarded as a mod, or are they a factory option , and how much advantage would it have over a stock yammy or kwakka.
Or do you racers think the class would fill with KTM's or Canam 450's and is it an open class, up to 500cc or higher.

Hope I dont sound to niave ???
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and the twin yoshi's
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[Country Boy!!]

i say to let a slip-on change of handlebars and change of rims/tyres
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[OZ_450]

noodles i dont agree with pegs being changed as with a banshee 1 inch back and a lower peg gives more weight to rear improving ridability and traction in races

i think bars and safety like bar ends and nerfs and lanyard only
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black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[HSR]

Remember guys at the moment Production class does not only apply to senior riders, you must also include in this debate the future of juniors and any rules must also include them, I have been involved in this issue from the beginning and I can tell you that emotion and not reason will be the loudest voice you will hear.
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we do not stop racing because we grow old
we grow old because we stop racing

[bullet]

Good point Huey.
Perhaps we could seperate off that we are only talking about 'senior production' here.
It could apply to Junior classes too, but does not have to.

I hope the rules do slow bikes down.
Otherwise next year the Production competition will only get a lot faster.
I will be on a wider bike, with a good couple of hp more from a slip-on and fuel correction.
Is that how it should be?

Hi Yogie.
Motors could be tagged and sealed but that would just add nightmares.
We'd have to rely on honesty and our MA protest system if that fails.
Cc's are open to 700cc +5% as per GCR's.
Piping and Cerry Bombing a Suzi is a massive step up, and a big advantage over stockies.
All the models benefit from those sort of mods to varying degrees.

The more interesting point is that they are nearly all identical if left dead stock.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Wadey]

Just to throw a cat among the pigeons, how do we control flash re-programming of ECU's, or what do do with Quads with dual maps in the ECU such as Can-AM and Suzuki. Both those bike where designed at factory to be able to operate in either map. Considering the intention of "production " class is to create a affordable racing class. my thoughts are - allow for slip on mufflers [ ever had a muffler damaged from a shunt from behind and found the cost of a replacement OEM muffler to expensive ], OK to rejet/fuel interceptor and or remove airbox lid [ some bikes are air factory airbox restricted simply for intake noise reasons and correct fuel ratio for racing is a must for engine care ] OK to change of rims but stay with same material and dimensions also change bars and stem [ some OEM stems to expensive and alloy stems tend to fracture to easily ] but stay with same dimension and style of stem as OEM. No internal motor mods, keep with original shocks and spring type i;e; single spring if OEM equiped, only valving and spring weight changes, no steering dampers. As most of us have seen, a bike well set up like this can run multiple classes if needed and still be affordable. Possibly allow for fitment of factory upgrades to models , such as when a manufacturer improves/modifys a part that can be retrofitted to a earlier version of the same model, this may allow for a longer lifespan of a quad for production class thus keeping the costs down.