OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[noodles]

As far as production class goes, I heard a rumour that these MX race ready quads will not qualify for this class as they are supposidley a MX specific race quad and not the general production quad that does qualify. All the brands that are making these MX quads are still making a standard version that will be eligable to enter production class.
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say NO! to ball sports

[bigjon]

Huskygoat wrote:

Now you CAN AM BOYS have bought this on your self, because what len said is true. you really do piss everybody off trying to make sugar out of sh!t. what has the Can am won this year Kamfari Thumb pump Vic series Oh I forgot FINKE!!! congrats Smithy but for the Quad tell the truth and what was changed on it and don't forget the Honda bits . Len is spot on in what says at his level . You guys are dills everybody knows you get paid to say what you say except smithy he's not on here every two seconds how good Can am are. earn respect, tell the truth I think everybody would like hear it ... I await your response huskygoat

+1

Calling them dill's is a bit harsh though
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Don't close your eyes during the crash, you'll miss the best part

[Linc]

noodles wrote:

As far as production class goes, I heard a rumour that these MX race ready quads will not qualify for this class as they are supposidley a MX specific race quad and not the general production quad that does qualify. All the brands that are making these MX quads are still making a standard version that will be eligable to enter production class.

This whole production class thing is starting to pi$$me off.

Vested interests, idiots who don't understand the rules, bike guys (and some dads) who've never riden a quad but know everything about quads and a$$hats who just spout off at the mouth without thinking..........oh yeah..........f'kin manufacturers with money to throw around but no interest in helping the sport in general.

We seem to deal with this crap every year just before the Nats because some prick want to force their opinion on everyone else.

Linc

P.S. Noodles; I know your the messenger, my comments were not aimed at you.

[bullet]

It's interesting reading Husky's, bigjons and Linc's comments one after the other.
In the same post, it's been said that the Can-Am MX is no more race ready than any other quad... and then, maybe they should be banned from Production class because they might be too race ready and that's unfair

Seems there are a few different opinions out there 'everyone' hey Husky.

Husky, wait till you've even seen an MX then you could join the conversation with half an idea
I'm not a Pro-rider, but since I got on the Can-Am this year (and mine was dead stock up till 3 weeks ago when Adam helped me modify it for speedway) TeamBullet have landed on the podium 24 times so far.
Most of those not first places though.
I'm not paid to talk sh1t... I'm just lucky it comes naturally
But I am dead certain within myself that 'my' riding has improved and I'm certain I owe a lot of that to switching to a DS450 (a stock one).
And the MX is leaps ahead, so let's just see what happens.
Maybe the Yami will be too... maybe Honda will announce an equivalent.
But I'm only talking about what I know, from riding it, measuring it, pulling bits off and generally brainstorming away with a bunch of Pro riders, Aussie enginers and the U.S. race team technical guys.

Good point about 'Production' Noodles.
I'm all for keeping our MX classes 'most popular' for sport growth.
So who knows what the best recipe might be.
I reckon I do ok on the skinny bike anyway
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

Last edited by bullet on Sat Oct 18, 2008 10:21 pm; edited 1 time in total

[ATV PRO]

ROYC INK wrote:

Oh Lenny you amaze all of us with some of your comments, Im Happy bout that ! you say that for not much more than a 09 KTM, Yamaha or Can Am you can setup your honda for the not much more money. try this $13,000 approx new trx 450 09 nerf bars $300+ kill switch $30+ beadlocks rear and MX tyres $1500+ Axle $700+ A-arms and shocks all round $4500+ Braided brake lines $100 + theres $8000 to the normal rider already just to make a TRX 450 honda equivelent to a Can Am, Yamie, or KTM. and thats not even getting into the little things like bumpers, steering stems, heel guards, handle bars etc etc. also remember len that there are only a few pros in australia. nearly 100 of ATV buyers are not pros, and even if pros bought bikes they don't normally pay the full RRP. oh yeah lenny when was the last time you rode a stock TRX 450? everyone i have ever seen you own is always stripped down to the bone and highly modified internal and externally. i await your response.

HI Mick ,
Some of the reasons are listed above . I was just letting people know the Truth ,not having a go at the products .I feel BRP are doing a great job for the sport and take my hat of to them ,but please lets keep it real .
Try This !
The MX version comes with Alloy sprockets standard and they last 5 mins ,how much to replace and can you get aftermarket ?What gearing options are there for various tracks ?
I want to ride it in the dunes,Endurance or trails , I will need to purchase good Radials or similar and rims to match for the bigger wheels.More Money
The steering stem is Plus 1" what if a 6 foot 2 200 lb rider comes along,I will need a plus 2 or 3 Stem , plus the suspension is 7 inches of the ground with a 175 kg rider ,what if this rider wants it higher for certain tracks and how low is it for a heavier rider ?For the tracks in Australia you mostly need between 7.5 and 8 inches with MX tyres ,so how do I achieve this Mick?I set up Camber between 1-3 degrees ,the MX version states 11degrees to 15 degrees ?
I get nearly 2 inches more travel out of Honda Suspension,pretty handy through the lumps and bumps on a MX track ,plus I can actually set up the ride height to suit the various tracks
There is more ,but out of respect I will stop here .
You can buy a TRX for $11990 and I will sell my full speced race quad with the very best gear on it for $16000 , 15 hours on it after the Nats

I believe Vets ,Intermediates,Woman's,Kids all want the best to compete on
Not everyone can ride like a Pro but they all want the best they can get in the class they run or they go Production class.

Snags Podium the the Vets Class at the Tri State on Standard Honda 05 TRX Suspension and bought it from me for a song .

I rode the same TRX Honda (Stock front Suspension) at the start of the year at Moto Mayhem and I believe I finished the last race with a win in front of you ,not bad for an old man of 44 on a humble Honda.
I love you Mick x [/b]
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Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

Last edited by ATV PRO on Wed Oct 22, 2008 9:30 am; edited 1 time in total

[Mrs_Gaitar]

Interesting topic when we have a Honda TRX450ER '07 and a '08 Can-Am DS450

Ive also owned a Honda 250R and I believe the Can-Am DS is the closest
4stroke out of the box to what the 250R feels like.
Son rode a stock Can-Am DS in the Pro/Int class in WA for half a season, and added after market stuff for the last half the season, he also believes the standaed Can-Am is much more enjoyable to ride than the Honda.

Havent seen the Can-Am 09 MX yet, but look forward to seeing it, as my almost 16 yr old daughter needs a bike for 09, and this will be the first bike to look over.
Mr Gaitar28
Grant Gaisford
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www.waquadmx.com

[bullet]

Mrs_Gaitar wrote:

Ive also owned a Honda 250R and I believe the Can-Am DS is the closest 4stroke out of the box to what the 250R feels like.

Yeah aint it scarey that they 'pretty well' got it 99% perfect back in 1986, and even the latest technology quads are maybe only a few seconds quicker.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Huskygoat]

Guys not sure about the production thing as for vested interests I will be selling Arctic Cat next year will countine to ride Polaris ( no sponsorship ) and currenttly talking with KTM for Finke for two young blokes in Darwin.

The issue I was on about is Len was dead on the about the KTM.. I don't know but I would have to say Can am would have sold the most quads in Darwin last year by a long way. I have to thank Can am because out of doing good turns( mainly unpaid ) for friends I have had aleast half of Renegades sold, thru straigthing the frames. Yes I got one in right now.

As for the geometry of quads. you need to get a tape measure and get some benchmarks from a local race quad builder ( pete W might help us there) the Yammie and Honda and ltr are way ahead. Polaris and KTM have both stuffed up their rear shock . The Can am front end is totally wrong this is why they have added all the adjustments. Ktm is a little guilty in their front end is to flat. Polaris shock is the reason why their air box is the worst ever seen on a quad but the Ktm is the best Airbox.


TeamBullet have landed on the podium 24 times so far.

this is the type of dribble that gets up my nose nobody cares how many times you were the first loser . Are you interested in how many times Viv and I have placed in events and won the odd one . Sorta like smashing a 100 in the back yard at mums . get my drift

One thing I do praise you for sincerly is the DVDs with mick are first class I look forward to everyone.


so what were modification on the Finke bike?

Huskygoat

Last edited by Huskygoat on Sun Oct 19, 2008 8:15 am; edited 1 time in total

[OZ_450]

petew rode the 250r they have rebuilt for sairs at swan hill looked awesome he has done a good job of reuillding to look brand new and pete had trouble holding it he said was pulling his arms off


bullet maybe smitty better put petey on some weights and a strict diet hehe


one thing i did notice bullet you said podiums this year ? i do beleive u only raced a jumbo last season not a 450 in mx ? i also beleive if you were put on a suzuki or ktm or most likely most brands you would have been up there as like smitty and netty you would would prob be fast on anything without a doubt

but yes the new race type quads have made it easy i know when we bought ours was only suzuki out there and smitty and few others recommended was best bang for buck for me to go it now that many brands have a mx version makes the choice harder ( ment at a compliment Bullet)

but i think i will stick with suzuki as i am happy enough with that at moment hehe
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black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[bullet]

Husky, I only mentioned TeamBullets back yard podiums because because you challenged 'earn respect'.
You asked budy, I would have thought racing from one end of Australia to the other (big back yard) and doing pretty well would satisfy your doubt.
I'm guessing you know nothing about my mechanical and engineering qualifications either.
I don't feel so bad after hearing that you think most quad manufacturers in the world have all got their quad geometry wrong.
Maybe you should tell those 'dills' how to do it properly.
And I talk to Petey quite a bit, we often bounce suspension and geometry ideas around... ask Mick, he gets sick of hearing it

You asked "so what were modification on the Finke bike"?
Mine Renegade was stock, but detuned to 730cc.
I drilled holes in the exhaust baffle and the air box lid.
Quadsquad fitted a fuel controller to correct the mixtures and serviced the shocks with a good synthetic oil and trick seals in the front legs.
So yeah, smaller engine but I call it stock.

If you meant Smitty's bike... yeah I know, but if you really need to know, you can ask Smitty yourself.
He did run the usual aftermarket stuff, as most sponsored pro riders do.
Back to the point though...
Next year he wont 'have' to anywhere near as much because the MX comes with most of it as standard.
And his rear axle will be lighter too

OZ, you know how good Suzi's are out of the box, and back when you got yours, IMO as well, they were bloody good racing for your money.
They were a wake up call to the other manufacturers that's for sure.

I think next year will be an exciting one, and it's quad riders and racers who look like they are going to benefit with better quads for your money.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Huskygoat]

The reason why I'm up you and roycrok is that every time something is said on this forum you to guys chime in on how good Can ams are. If your a engineer you must know the short falls in the quads. No quad is perfect . I have no problem tell any one what they need to look out for " its the Australian Way" but you have people believe by reading your posts that Can am are the perfect. Most of us who are not pro riders would like to know whats going wrong so it doesn't cost a zillion dollars to fix.

I would still like here what changed on Smithy's quad just let the whole of Australia know to run at that level this is what was changed and at what cost. I think Len would like to hear it and compare roycrock's notes . And I'm not asking Smithy that would be disrespectful.

And as a matter of fact i am a contact of Polaris's cheif engineer In USA as the Kamfari is toughest race in the world as what went wrong with the quads each year all brands. I also was asked to right a letter to the Polaris on their MX and I have a confidental letter in response to reason why there machine is what it is. Big business have a reason for everything.

And no I didn't ask about your 800 and you didn't tell the truth about changing your shocks. I know More about the 800 than you do. you might tell Australia about the Australian Sarfari? what broke?

Lets get something clear about being "dills" that was to you and roycroks comments on Lens post no more no less.

I'm a little tried of being the nice guy if your down if front me I will run over you . And I'm not going events to make numbers for the greater good of the sport anymore. Quote "All the Quad guys will look after each other". what a joke. So the next time somebody says to me I'm not going their because its a "Honda event" I am not going to travell 14000 kms for a Can am event.


Bring it on this could get a bit embarassing for you BULLET

You might think twice about bagging somebody else.

Huskygoat

[Roycroft]

hey husky

whats the go, why come in and ruin eveything you sound like a very nasty person.

your comments are uncalled for, we are trying to have a civilised conversation here, and don't need you to come in and start running people over.

who cares if people disagree with lenny, bullet and myself, we are all entitled to represent our own brand, and yes thats what i get paid for.

you obvously have some serious issues with manufactures and there issues with quads, take it out with them and not me or bullet.

len and i are always going to disagree on things, we actually rode together yesturday and both our points are valid in our opinions. if people disagre then so be it.

you say you want to bring something on? is this what the australian way is now heading to? if thats the case i don't want to come to darwin to meet you.
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2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[bullet]

I think you might have lost it on this one Husky.
Random started this post asking about the new Can-Am and KTM's.
Because I have ridden and know a bit about the DS450MX I responded, and yeah it was a positive review.
Heaps of other very experienced riders saw and rode the bike at Singleton MX track yesterday and all they were all very impressed.

A good mate (and ex pro champ) recently bought a new KTM into the family, and he could not be happier with it.
I don't talk about the new KTM because I don't have one and have not really looked over ridden it yet.

About post 25, Husky came in to start a fight.
Now you're up to running people over.
All I have been doing is answering your questions (read you own posts again ) and defending myself.

The new MX will be about $12,500 and comes with a fully adjustable MX front end, not because the X model front end had any problems at all but because it is aimed at the racer who wants full adjustment to suit different personal settings, disiplines, tracks etc. Basically all the reasons Len mentioned.
It also comes with, nerf bars, kill switch, beadlocks rear and MX tyres, 4-1 offset front rims, stronger 46 inch to 50 inch adjustable hollow rear axle, High and low speed adjustable shocks both ends, zero preload tripple rate springs, Braided brake lines, and anti vibe steering stem.

I did not read that out of the brochure or anything, they're just the obvious bits anyone can see... maybe there is more.

So I apologies Husky if that's all a bit too positive Can-Am for you, but thats just how RACE READY it really is for $12,500

If anyone else reading wants to know anything about what works and what does not work for me on my 'standard' Can-Am bikes...
Please just ask.
I'm sure any of the X Team guys would love to help out, offer advice, tuning tips, modifications, what to watch for etc etc
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Huskygoat]

dear Mick sorry that I offend you . And you will always welcome in Darwin but if you chose not to come to Darwin becuase you Think I am nasty . So be it I won't lose any sleep.

Back to the point . If you tell the truth you earn respect . Now you Say that you get paid to say what you say. My point exactly. Thank you

Now is Len wrong about the KTM rear shock?

Has Can am won anything on a stock 450?

please tell the truth about some short comings of the ds 450?

If you continue to barrage everybody how prefect canam are your credability will be shot

Lovely chating with you

Huskygoat

[cowchaser]

Ah Lenny boy it's great to hear from you again old mate stirring the pot as usual talking Honda dribble. Thanks all the free Can-Am publisity ya d!ckhead

Huskygoat wrote:

Now you CAN AM BOYS have bought this on your self, because what len said is true. you really do piss everybody off trying to make sugar out of sh!t. what has the Can am won this year Kamfari Thumb pump Vic series Oh I forgot FINKE!!! congrats Smithy but for the Quad tell the truth and what was changed on it and don't forget the Honda bits . Len is spot on in what says at his level . You guys are dills everybody knows you get paid to say what you say except smithy he's not on here every two seconds how good Can am are. earn respect, tell the truth I think everybody would like hear it ... I await your response huskygoat

Gee Husky I didn't know you were still that upset with Can-Am because they wouldn't help you out to bring a Honda rider (Joe Byrd) from states to do a show up there.

I not going to get mixed up in all this but I love reading it ha ha ha. You want to know what I did to my Finke bike? I'll tell ya no probs, I do every time somone rings me and asks about Finke and what I do to my bike for the race (and thats nearly weekly)

2008 DS450X
Powerflow cleaned up the head nothing over board just a clean up job

RPM TRX 450 rear axle, carrier, hubs

Fox Shoxs all round for prolouge and way down rear Elka on way home

ATV 4 Play arms

Precision Dampner

HMF Pipe and EFI controler

Flex Bars

Hiper Wheels

Secret wepon......................................Remove front guards!!!!!! Ta Daaa

Oh and one more thing! A red headed nut job that loves holding it on the limiter in the desert

Mate there is no secrets with me anytime anyone need some knowlage just get on the blower and ask.


Now for the new MX

IT IS NOT RACE READY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT NEEDS A BLOODY PIPE ON IT!!!!!!!!!!

Other than that I plan to run Fox Shox because I love them and Hardiman ATV sponsor me to use them, Proberly change the bars and maybe some "BOLD NEW GRAPHICS"

I hope to use the Arms and axle but they would want to be bloody strong for me not to werck them.

The new bikes will just have to prove themselves out on the track first but I think we will be all plesently suprised with the Can-Am and Katoom and it will help or sport to no end

Production class

This was my invention back at the start of 06 my idea and my way of getting new riders into the sport and at a budget price. I could not give a sh!t for it now as the powers that be gone and stuffed it with too many rules and regluations. It was always ment to be an entry level class and the only changes that could be done were
Controls
Slip on
jetting


I'm not going to to post in the topic again because I refuse to get sucked in to a Fourm fight
_________________
Smitty

[lukeb]

I just sent my resume to Hyosung and am waiting for a response, if i get what i asked for i will tell you how good they are and why you should ride one, what was that you say boss my Polaris contract is still active "profanity removed" i take back the Hyosung thing please dont tell anyone

oh yeah smithy you may be a red headed nut job but we still love you
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What would you know i read it on a forum it must be true ha ha

[Huskygoat]

Yes Smithy and and for the development of our sport I am trying to get funding from AIS so Joe can coach The Australian Youth development squad. MA approved . At this stage it will be held in Alice. Joe still looking at his Calender as to when.

I'm not in the loop about this production class thing. what are the rules of production class.

If you change the pipe on ds 450 and ride the wheels off it suddenly it overheats and goes into limp mode. so thats were all the changes start with the ds

huskygoat

[OZ_450]

husky not stirring the pot but from what i hear nt needs to step up the quad mx campane clubman doing diff tracks to pro and expert ????// what the must be only state in aussie that all classes dont run same track

i think only the nippers do a diff track at most other states

as for can am winning .... can am won production title at vics and was not much done to it by my eyes as mick was set up beside me all weekend and was over there a few times

and well you want to see big Rick ride on his stocko he gets that thing moving fast

but i also have seen posts by you and your wife husky proclaiming how good polaris are

i know lb and aarons go fast and get results but also seen some engine issues when they go bang on them too so like any quad brand all have some faults
_________________
black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[Roycroft]

yes len is true, we tested the KTM for ATV action early this year before the Can Ams arrived. yes there is a shot of me in ATV action riding it.
really enjoyed but didn't like the no link rear end, also late last year the polaris had the same setup on the rear, didn't like that either.

i am defienltly not worried if people think i am full of "profanity removed" or my creditability goes down the drain, especially you.

if you read my orginal post i was up lenny about the his comments regarding his idea of a race ready honda, it had nothing to do with just Can Am, if you also note Yamaha, KTM were mentioned. i have also owned a LTR 450 for the last few years and i bought it for the exact reasons why this posts exists.

working with Bazz from ATV action for the last 13 issues i have rode the pants off every new bike that has been in that mag, including 08 DS 450 in the june issue last year. way before the january signing with Can Am.
read my comments there and tell me that i am not telling the truth.

where did you hear about the limp mode thing?
i have never had mine in limb mode. i know beery and smithy have and i would of had to come close at the Hardiman Cup race recently.
everybike is going to overheat when you get mud in the radiator, unfortunetly for the Can Am you going to get it much more easier than others due to its design, the raptor woud be in the same boat.
the function is only there so you don't cook it, its trying to tell you that hey clean my radiator.

we actually won the Vic production title this year on the stock Ds 450.

my only mods where flexx bars, new grips, and i ran beadlocks 8 inch rims and tyres as a mate of mine bent my stock rims on the rear.

if there is anything else you want to know go buy a DS 450 and i tell ya.
then you will know i am not talking dribble./
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[v8toy]

bitch bitch bitch bitch "profanity removed" bitch





p.s ktm's all the way haha
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go hard or go home

[HST Powersports]

husk in regards to the limp mode thing if u were at the races u would have noticed a front number plate fitted to the front of the bike it restricted air into the engine which over heated when it was removed it stopped. i have work with mick roycroft all year on his bikes never seen it over heat yet. we rode in a foot of mud around a track here in newcastle called barley ranch the bikes were worked really hard all bikes that were there over heated the can am didn't it ran perfectly, as for the bike going into limp mode i have seen one other occasion where the battery went flat on one of the x team riders bikes, it did go into limp mode as it was not recieving enough battery voltage to keep the ECU powered up my LTR does the same thing they all need power to run so its not a bike design problem its just normal in everything that requires a battery and has ECU's look at all the late model cars these days!!!!!!!!!!!

[Huskygoat]

Well get your calulator out and start adding what smithy put on his race ready Finke winning machine $$$$$$$ and read your own post which I responded to. Mick

If you would like to research my posts I have praised the cam an only a month ago as well as the polaris but I am not backward on telling what is wrong witha polaris. what is my beef is getting you too to tell everybody that your machine, which you love and cherrish might have a problem maybe.

As for Production class at Vics Just how many were in the race?

As riding a diferent track at Joe Byrd and it was a big call but as the President of the club I made the dissicion not to put our not so talented riders on a very technical track. Even our very riders had trouble with step on step off. It was a saftey issue not a NT thing.


I raced against a KTM 505 in the Masters Games last week. My quad is nothing fancy but I stick with a ds 450. I'm sorry that machine pulled 5 lenghts on field. just remember 10 old blokes with big thumbs going into a tight corner is not pretty but 505 was gone. Pretty damn sure it was stock!

He excitedly said I might be presently surprised though. Big Boss said

Does this mean we all get one for free for chrissy or just the few who rode them this year? I don't think anyone paid for one!

As for the limp mode Waldo and crew in Darwin tested this quad for months and is a proven fact change the pipe you need to change the controller. But Waldo is hardest rider in the country.


Huskygoat

[HST Powersports]

depending on what pipe u put on i have fitted motoworks full systems and slip ons to them and removed the airbox lid and they have just had the usual known wiring mod done to it most CAN AM riders know about and it has run perfectly fine.... The only time they needed a fuel controller is when the engine was modified then the fuel controller was needed. which the controller was limited to where a and what it can adjust.

[Roycroft]

ive had enough arguing, i have better things to do like go and pack the trailer for the nationals and win some races

thats where the bullshit stops when the gate drops.

bring on tassie
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2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[ATV PRO]

Hey Husky ,
Your a freaking legend ,I lived at Berrimah Caravan park ( I believe the park has gone now? ) in the 80's ,great place ,even though the woman don't shave the armpits or legs ...ahhhhh , I do like your style of people ,down to earth and can smell bullsxxt from miles You are spot on Keep up the great work and let the curve balls slide by.

Smitty :Thanks for the compliments and the Honda Plug !
Suzuki Last year ,Can am now ...hey their all good !
Its good to see your priorities are right ,Honda on the farm where it counts ?
I rekon your fair dinkum all round Aussie good bloke and I like ya style and I believe its your shout for the Turkey and Coke

Bullet :I don't really know you well but you seem like a decent bloke.
I'm glad you like your ride ,points of interest taken, particularly about the adjustable suspension and the price is very good, well done Can Am.

Bazz: What a great man of truth and fantastic advocate of the sport in Australia ! Love your work Baz he is a legend folks ...one helova nice guy.

Mick :13 editions with a Magazine ,great feat and you have done many good articles.well done !
Mate from what I see you are also a gifted business man ,your a champion !
You also remind me of JR Yewing from the TV series "Dallas" you brash thing you.
From now on I will refer to you as "JR"
On Quads ,you are still a wagily tailed Pup ! Your boxer has more Quad Spunk , Woof !
Nationals ,gate drops and the bullsxxt stops ... pretty Corney !
Takes more than one person to argue...

Me :
Raced ,loved and been a mechanic on Quads for 23 years and still know very little about Quads .
Done a little bit with the Mag .
Absolute Sxxt stirrer .
As long as I beat "JR" at bench racing ,everything is just dandy !

Some more stuff :
1) It Doesn't steer that well and limited 10.5 inches of rear suspension travel.
2)The power down low is not good, right where you need it for MX ,this is more suitable for cutting trees ,look out Poulan you have a new kid on the chainsaw block .
3) John Natatali JNR did much better on a Honda !
4) I would rather pay for a Honda than get a Can am on tick
5) Subject to the unknown ,this old man is gunna smoke "JR" cigars at Tamworth,He He !
6) You shouldn't bring knives to gunfights.
7) You cant polish a turd , but you can coat it in glitter!

Without Support ,If you were the best rider in the world and money was no object you would buy the most developed,fastest ,best handling quads available Right now that's a Honda or Suzuki .
It is good to see Can Am and KTM getting serious though !

BTW Mick just kidding around ,you should know me by now !


_________________
Cheers
Len

ATV PRO Pty Ltd

Last edited by ATV PRO on Wed Oct 22, 2008 10:05 am; edited 11 times in total