OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Gravedigger]

Hey everyone in Vic. just want to get some discussion going and some idea of peoples intrest in pursuing a "home" for quads in our state. Not sure where this will go however it is looking as though i'm going to have
plenty of time to do my best to get something happening.

Let's just start with peoples thoughts and ideas, does anyone think it is
worth a try. To get something off the ground will take a lot of time and effort but I think our sport is worth it, what do you think?

To have a state base would be a true asset. This could be somewhere
for families to ride legally on a social basis, possibly develop over time
to have competitions of variuos types be it moto-x,dirt track, enduro etc.

Reading this you might think I'm "on drugs". Sure it is a pie in the sky
dream at the moment but I am serious about the development of our sport. All thoughts and suggestions welcome, C'mon let's get it started.

Look forward to seeing what level of intrest there is, I know everyone is busy but let's get the ball rolling.

Cheers Dean

[Barney]

I think that it is a great idea, i would love to see a place like frogmore park in Vic , It would mean that families can ride together as a group and be more of a family as such.

We all like different aspects of riding be it racing or just a social bush ride , so it would be a great idea if we could all have a ride at the same place.

Behind you 100% gravedigger
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[fossil800R]

Great idea Dean, and I don't think that there would be a single one of us who wouldn't agree with you. Promoting the family and social aspect of this sport is going to ensure its longevity. The struggle is going to be finding somebody with enough land to build something like Frogmore and then willing to fork out the dollars to build it.

If you need a hand at any stage though, I'm in.
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[OZ_450]

yes i agree went to our local towns track in bush been there for over 20 years there for 20 mins had the dse turn up take rego of car and trailer and tell us we cant ride there anymore and the police and dse will be doing a month long blitz down here starting next week
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[Gravedigger]

Thanks for the support guys, now lets start kicking a few ideas around and please spread the word to keep and grow the intrest levels.

* how much land do we want/need

*what,s the best way to get govt. assistance/support

*does anyone have experience with this type of thing with govt.

*does anyone think that getting enough people together to maybe purchase land and run and develop it as some type of community co-op
organisation

*over time it could possibly be run as a ride park to help fund running
and development costs

Just some ideas to get started, if I had the money I would happily buy
the land myself to get something started, it,s something that we as the
quad family can work towards,build and develop as our own IF WE WANT
IT ENUOGH.

Cheers Dean.

[fossil800R]

Deano,
Shoot a PM over to Karen and the guys at Frogmore. They should be able to answer most of these initial questions and also give you an idea of the hurdles they faced getting all the govt. and legal stuff done.

Just a suggestion for a short term solution. The QRCV already have organised trail and social rides at private properties sympathetic to our sport. Could these property owners and anybody else with a reasonable tract of land be approached to form a group so that access to legal riding areas for organised events can be made available most weekends if desired. This would also mix up the riding terrains and locations to suit a broader appeal.

Just throwing it out there.
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[Trud]

Hi Dean

this has been a hot topic for a while now. One thing i think you have to look at is the location central to our members. We do have a pie graph with this info for your records.
Also I think you need to approch Local Councils first. They are the ones we will be dealing with and unfortunatley fighting with. The 2 wheelers have been trying to get new tracks ( both bush (enduro) and racing) and always get knocked back from Councils and if they go ahead get shut down because of neighbours whinging.
Nothing like getting the ball rolling though and getting your homework done so we can start somewhere - good luck and will help where needed
Cheers
Trud

[yogie]

fossil700R wrote:

Deano, Shoot a PM over to Karen and the guys at Frogmore. They should be able to answer most of these initial questions and also give you an idea of the hurdles they faced getting all the govt. and legal stuff done. Just a suggestion for a short term solution. The QRCV already have organised trail and social rides at private properties sympathetic to our sport. Could these property owners and anybody else with a reasonable tract of land be approached to form a group so that access to legal riding areas for organised events can be made available most weekends if desired. This would also mix up the riding terrains and locations to suit a broader appeal. Just throwing it out there.

there's some bloke out near Avoca with a bit of land....
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[fossil800R]

yogie wrote:

fossil700R wrote: Deano, Shoot a PM over to Karen and the guys at Frogmore. They should be able to answer most of these initial questions and also give you an idea of the hurdles they faced getting all the govt. and legal stuff done. Just a suggestion for a short term solution. The QRCV already have organised trail and social rides at private properties sympathetic to our sport. Could these property owners and anybody else with a reasonable tract of land be approached to form a group so that access to legal riding areas for organised events can be made available most weekends if desired. This would also mix up the riding terrains and locations to suit a broader appeal. Just throwing it out there. there's some bloke out near Avoca with a bit of land....

Good looking bloke too I hear
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Dean

I tried tackling just this question at a somewhat higher level of getting say quads rec regd for Vic so we could access already established ride area's so we would have to do the minimum of trying to avoid area's for noise etc.

An enquiry to the State Govt Vic attracted a Nil response and when a local ATV Mag put an article together with an apparently rhetorical question of how we can get quads sales up, my response to them was met with scathing criticism and absolutely no positive motions on their behalf.

So if it is going to happen quickly it will have to happen privately I think.

I dont even have a quad yet!! I was just trying to make sure I had enough area's to enjoy my $10k - $20K outlay on quad trailer and accessories! I am a genuine enthusiast that wants quad ridihng to be the prdominant motorcycling forum in Australia, although I do enjoy other bike categories including road and trail.

I still dont own a quad but damn sure I am willing to put everything I can into this effort of getting something going coz i do want to ride quads!!!

That and Im shamed that WA is killing us in quad sales and ride area's!! LOL Where's our pride!

Given that we may get one ride area out of a park, we should at some stage consider political preassure to get quads to rec reg or similar.

An idea is that is a little outside the box is that Fire trails may be the sole responsibility of CFA, and under those rules, acting as a volunteer group we could offer to clean and "patrol" fire trails by regular rides. So maybe a direct approach to the CFA could be a "hidden" winner.

Im a big picture kinda guy and sort of think about how to we get Victoria to be the Arizona (quad wise) of Australia.

But I can see that "my way" - the big bang theory - isnt going to be a winner coz we dont have enough indians or supporters parallel to the needs of our group.

I guess the best way to proceed is to get interested parties together and brain storm some idea's on how to get it going.

Im used to dealing the the big business scale of things but I need guys and girls to do detailed work to get propositions and the like together so I know what I can offer, but we need to see what everyone can do to see if it can fly.

So many attempts at this will have fallen on its arse for lack of dedication we really need a quorum of hardliners who have the deepest desire for this to succeed.

I have noticed a lot of our "posters" here are maybe gippy way? Im from Warrandyte myself but i think we either get groiupo e-mails going or a sit down meeting and form a group and decide our course of action.

So I call for support from the Vics, its time to get off our collective if we really want this to happen.

So who lives where, whats our e-mail list and who is gunna stand up and be counted in the effort to make this work? Im in and will do my all quad or no quad, maybe you guys will let me ride one when we get it runing?? lol

Now apart from getting us together as a group I remember an article in Dirt Wheels in the last 6 or so months about how to set up a ride park, will search for the article as this goes to air.

Anyone/everyone is free to contact me to give any feedback on what has succeeded and what has failed in terms of past attempts and just to start getting involved.

In the US atv's outsell dirt bikes 3-1, we should be making that boom here and making ourselves all filthy amounts of dollars!! haha - yeah right.

Regards to all

Gavin
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[bullet]

Private land ownership is probably the only real secure way to go.
Any other option comes with huge external politics.
A co-op type arrangement will only have internal politics... but at least you have a hope of control.
I reckon you'de need at least 100 acres for variety.
One way might be for riders to throw in an amount of money for lifetime membership.
Say 100 people chip in $2,000 each.
It has to be a small enough sum that you are prepared to walk away from but total up to something that will buy land outright.
Very cheap, secured for life quad riding.
I think a tennants in common title with 100 owners might also deminish liabilities a bit between at least the 100 owners.

I'd be in if someone want's to establish such a venue within 100km of my house.

I spose someone would have to find the spot and put it up here for a start.

The force is strong on the dark side and the fun police will always work hard to enforce missery...
but I don't see how they can stop this concept.
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[yogie]

bullet wrote:

Say 100 people chip in $2,000 each. It has to be a small enough sum that you are prepared to walk away from but total up to something that will buy land outright. Very cheap, secured for life quad riding. I think a tennants in common title with 100 owners might also deminish liabilities a bit between at least the 100 owners.

I know some bl;okes up near Mt bulla, these blokes have about 120 acres, they all own equal shares and for eg they paid 10k each, thats all they can sell it for, and all upgrades are also shared equaly. I dont know what they use it for, but it has worked well for them for about 15 years... Thats their way.
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

I had a crack at the fire trails route today and found out that CFA arent in charge of the types of trails we'd like to ride and perhaps pay them back by assessing accessability or whatever else.

The are controlled in Vic by the DSE under Parks Vic. Parks Vic do not have a volunteer programme for firefighting like the CFA and as such dont have a volunteers indemnity, goodbye riding Mount Buller, etc etc etc.
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[PeteW]

Gavin, sound like you are pretty committed towards this idea, maybe you should come to the next QRCV general meeting (10 Hilton St, Clifton Hill, 7th July 8PM) to disscuss some of the avenues you'd like to try toward a Rec Reg scenario.

Deano, there was an unsubstanciated rumor a while back about maybe some sort of grant from the Gov towards land or a land grant itself would be even better, may be an avenue worth pursuing.....
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

To discuss some of Bullets post I would think that a lot of country towns have a little land set aside that they had a a motocross track I know a lot of them woould probably not fit our intended use but someone may know of a golden egg just sitting there unused and waiting a coucil submission.

Some great points. Personally for land size I would be thinking 1000 acres would be more like it, so we could have the cabability to clearly seperate camping from ride area's, have to possibility of several tracks to be built as well as a number of trail options.

I dont know that 1000 acres of crap farm land will cost us anymore than 100 acres as I dont know where we would find a 100 acre parcel that isnt close enough to town to worry about noise pollution.

I also would maybe see an opportunity if say a sand miner was selling a pit or something. I know o my olds farm we had a sand pit beiung mined by the local roads authority, it was the shizzle in terms of riding.

Of course I would want the park in my back yard too but the reality i thnk we need this pie graph suggested by Trud posted so we can select a possible location and call for expressions of interest.
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[Roycroft]

you know we in NSW are in the same boat.
with stockton almost near gone, riders are trading in there quads for 2 wheelers in droves.

NSW used to be quad central with stockton around the corner.

compared to Vic we hardly have anywhere to ride even on mx tracks as there are only a handfull of clubs that support quad riders and that would let us on there tracks.
it takes people like todd oleary to keep tracks open and organise races for us.

i would like to see something similar on the central coast or newcastle region.
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[ReD HeaderZ]

All states just come to frogmore.... easy solution, done, most of the racers travel half way round the country....
It is getting bad, ride spots are disappearing so fast...it's scary

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

I thought I'd seen a heap of ride parks in NSW.

Like this one: http://www.biketerritory.com.au/

I had thought I had seen at least 3. (?)

I can remember another one around goulburn?

One of the reasons i was making a stink here as you guys seemed well serviced.
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[Gravedigger]

Great to see so many people showing their intrest in this idea/movement.
Keep all the great ideas coming, what do people think is the best way to
formalise this into a group to get things happening. Pete, what do you think about using our QRCV to help develop things,personally I believe
the united force of our club would be a huge kickstart.

Bullets' idea of purchasing land on the basis of a co-op type arrangement
has a lot of merit, once we owned a decent tract of suitable land then it
could be slowly developed over time with the range of possible uses and
developments unlimited. We could possibly make approaches to govt. for
inintial assistance in the purchase of land and/or get assistance in the development of the facilities. Corporate sponsorship is also another avenue to obtain assistance and help these ideas become a reallity.

Pete, there was an expression of intrest advertised by the state govt. a few months back looking at organizations or individuals that may be
interested in and have the ability to develop and provide facilities for the
use of unregistered off-road motorcycles/ATV's. This EOI came out following the DSE investigation and report into the use of public land for
recreational motorcycles. In this report it is acknowledged that the govt.
has a responsibility to provide legal riding facilities for the increased numbers of both moto-x type bikes and ATV's of which sales have been steadily growing over past few years.

Given that the govt. has identified a need for such facilities then this opens the door for organizations to develop proposals for govt. financial
packages and assistance to get these greatly needed facilities off the ground.

Cheers Dean

[priesty]

I remember I posted a link to that tender for expressions of interest on here in the vic section, also emailed to QRCV, closing date was06 Feb 08, I might check out the vic - roads site to see if there was anything arising out of this.
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08 700xx

[priesty]

followed up on that tender process, several submitted as follows, none awarded. Anyone know who these parties would be.

Tenders Received for Contract No. 7163


Tender Lists are not to be taken as an indication of which (if any) tender will be accepted. The tenders are subject to a check for errors or omissions in the Schedule of Rates or Prices as relevant, and for compliance with the conditions of tendering. Tenderers are advised not to enter into any commitments in respect of the list unless formally advised of acceptance of its tender.

Title: Provision of Research into the Benefit - Cost of Providing Off-Road Motorcycle Riding Facilities in Victoria
Type: Expression of Interest


Description:
To reduce motorcycle rider injury, predominantly in relation to off-road riding, VicRoads is seeking expression of interest from appropriately experienced providers to undertake research into the benefit – cost of providing off – road motorcycle riding facilities in Victoria
Closing Date: 06/02/2008


Expression of Interest In Alphabetical Order:
AEC Group Limited
KPMG
UltraFeedback Pty Ltd
URS Australia Pty Ltd


cheers....
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08 700xx

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Priesty

Do you know in Vic Roads owns the tender, is responsible for it, can get a copy, are willing to see it revived??

If we view it at least we can make some kind of plans/ submissions regarding what they want to find out.

Gav
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[bullet]

I think 'we' will have to come up with developement solutions and hopefully all the Govt have to do is assign the land.

If KPMG and URS etc are submitting proposals... without knowing any details, I'll bet my left one that there submissions will cost the Govt millions.
So the whole idea will probably get scrapped.

It's quad riding... not rocket science.
We don't need NASA involved.

A solid well supported club proposal would stand a much better chance.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Agreed bullett, but there are ways and means of looking like NASA while building a ocket in your backyard.

I guess if we can get a hold of the tender and have a look at wat criteria they were trying to meet we may be able to go back to them with something we can meet and get a changed tender or the like.

If we can chage our funding from 7 figures of say KPMG to 6 like a good private organisation we may have a winner??

But even just getting a copy will allow us to bring another player into field besidew DSE, Vic govt, local govt, primary industry, secondary industry and other sources of funding.

Agreed? Not that were debating just bouncing for idea's mate!
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[Gravedigger]

Keep the discussion going guys I can really see the snowball growing, this
type of talk backed up by the type of people it is coming from will get
ourselves something happening for sure.

Dean