OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[racefan]

Is the playing field equal. Are these cobra's in a leaque of thier own. Is it possible to get a CVT as fast as a cobra?
Any thoughts/tricks
Concerned CVT Parent

[PeteW]

I think the secret there is in the handling, the cobra has an excellent chassis that obviously handles well, if any of the CVT's came in a chassis that good they might have a chance.

The idea of a Junior Shifter 90/110 class has been brought up before but that is restricted to only a couple of models so it would pretty much make it a cobra class any way(much the same way as the Junior 300 class is really just a Blaster class), any one else got any ideas.....
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[Q67Dazza]

the Cobra's are fast
and if we all had a spare 40K,,a lot of our kids would have them
if you think your kid has the ability, the passion and will, to ride fast and beat a cobra {if he had the right equipment}
but you haven't got the money,,like most of us
buy a typhoon,,,heard they were going for $1250 in S.A.
spend $1500 on the motor
and chop the rear XR geometry swing-arm,,,there's a mod / fab you can do,,gives it heap of travel
then you need that rear shock
we're hearin 4 or 5K typhoons are beating these Cobras in the states.....eefffin laugh that is

IMO a 2T centifugal clutch CVT will always be battling against a 6 speed pingin off it's tits 2 stroke

but those 4 stroke tricked pit bike motors,,got a chance
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arn't hetrick bringing out there own race mini soon also

racefan wrote:

Is the playing field equal. Are these cobra's in a leaque of thier own. Is it possible to get a CVT as fast as a cobra? Any thoughts/tricks Concerned CVT Parent

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007257 where are you???.... bring back the Bling

[Linc]

Typhoons are way cool and they are cheap and resonably strong but to compete on one here in Oz is hard as the one you want is the TY125 but our race rules have a max of 115.5cc.

Who knows, maybe the factories will start to get serious about kids quads.

[Wadey]

No doubt you can make a CVT produce as much engine power as a Cobra, but its virtually impossible to make them put the power down to the ground without a manual tranny. [ not to mention the chassis set up ] Ive been to see them race in the states and they ARE NOT competing in the same class, and I'm sure thats the way it should be. Rules need to be looked at here, if they're not fixed soon the the first Cobra racing in Vic. will begin to put an end to the Junior 90/110 class. What about the prospect of someone running one in Jumbo Juniors, bet that would cause a bit of fuss! Fix the rules before it ruins the 90/110 class. [ this may seem like a bit of sour grapes, but theres no way that whats happening at present is right ]

[Wadey]

I have spoke to numerous top pit bike engine builders, they all say the best they can get out of a 125 four stroke pit bike is around 16 hp. But at that they'll only last around 15 hours, and they cost a packet to rebuild. I suppose a great point for the typhoon is the potential in the chassis. It all depends on how much time and money you want to spend though. I know if I could put Ben's LT80 donk in a typhoon, it'd be a weapon! At least it would have some decent suspension and handling. I've seen the modified Typhoons running in the states, THEY DONT compete with the Cobra. Even more reason to run a shifter 2T class. Perhaps Cobras should be run with CR85/YZ85/RM85 engine fitted quads, Ive seen them in Blaster and TRX90 chassis, it would be a great intermediate class before shifting to Blasters, problem is we wont have enough competitors to run another class.

[Q67Dazza]

we got about a race and a half out of a port & polished, hi comp piston 3V clutch on the crank heap of ^%$zzle
was a bad starting platform
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would be surprised re- only getting 15 hours outa one of these..
http://ahpminis.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=26_62&products_id=95
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Cobra's are gunna win,,
so either,,,get over-it
split the class's if you have the numbers,,,so your kid can win
or complain through the right avenues
end result....Junior quads will then need homologation
half the brands won't come onboard and pay fees, inspections, conformity etc
then it will really turn too schizte...cause little johnny taiwan can't race
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the Junior 90/110..will always be controversial,,,IMO,,mainly cause of the Parents ...
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there's only one bike to choose from when they go up to the next level..Blaster parents,,,seem to all get on good
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how many water cooled blasters do you race over there.???.
in theory that should be a hell of a lot faster than all other OEM blasters
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007257 where are you???.... bring back the Bling

[Wadey]

i suppose the other plan is we could put all the juniors on Cobras, least riding ability would decide who wins.
re; blaster, water cooling doesnt make em any faster, you can port a air cooled cylinder just as far as a water cooled cyl. There is two running around at present, another looks like being built.

[bullet]

Hi guys,
Pete Middletons CVT two'y is easily the quickest bike I've seen in Jumbo's. And I don't know if a Cobra would go much faster with an adult on it.
We just had young Locky (the Cobra at the Vics) over here in SA at one of our State rounds on his way home. As you'de expect he wipped it pretty easy. It is 83cc, and he is absolute top of his age group, really tall and light as buggery for his age. Not only that the boy can ride like a demon. Add all that together and maybe you've got a winner regardless.
Put him on a 107cc typhoon with a high comp 114cc kit and a set of Elkas (which he has after market fitted to his Cobra anway) and he might still be well in front.
I know which bike I'de rather own / race / maintain.

Good topic. But I dont think the rules can be changed every time for the sake of one introduction from a new manufacturer.
Otherwise well retrospectively change the rules every season for one bike that all ready killed it last season.

What will happen if / when Suzuki bring out their rumoured LTZ250 and for the first season one kid sticks a 315cc kit in it and blows the blaster class apart.

fun and games
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Wadey]

It will be interesting to see if any has a go with the new Yamy, might be a struggle with the 2 valve motor though. In the US the TRX300 rule the blasters, anyone racing one here?

[bullet]

There was a lad at last years Nat's in Perth who had both a Blaster and an imported TRX 300.
I talked to him as he practiced when he kept switching from one to the other... I asked which was quicker. His answer was, "I'm trying to work that out, but I think i'm faster on the Blaster on a rough track".
So he raced the Blaster more than the TRX.

But yeah, I wondered the same thing.
The TRX is heavy, but the new Yamy is actually lighter.
I think they'll do it easy.
It's what the rest of the 'Big 4' and the other manufacturers bring out in the 250 that will create an interesting revolution.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[kpracing12]

TRX250r Chassis with an RMZ250 engine. Now theres a combination. Hi Bullett

[Q67Dazza]

The Gaitor's got a 300ex as well,,,looks actually smoother in the rough stuff
young Chris Boz has got the other Cobra in OZ {unless there's now more than 2}...Is there more than 2???
Nationals last year...Him and Locky tangled in one race
Chris blew past Locky like he was standin still in another race,, but went over the bars at wanneroo jump {bad lip} and also had mechanical problems in another...ECX70 bored up had cooling issue's
Heard Chris is going to the States to race,,,blistering fast
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Should be interesting at the Nationals
that's what this thread is about isn't it "The Nationals"
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007257 where are you???.... bring back the Bling

[Mrs_Gaitar]

Yep we have a 300EX Honda.. its great, ride it push it in the shed for next time....
We use it as a spare bike, my Daughter doesnt like it for the weight factor, but just rode it in the Hyden Ironman she did 240km on it. All the kids on Blasters rode the same distance including a brand new 250cc Raptor, that came 2nd. {was a great weekend for all}

Back to the 300cc, my son rode it at the last club day to show his sister it could go fast, as she didnt believe it was as fast as a blaster. He got a 1st and 2nd{15 on the grid}, then he rolled it and then run over his own leg and a dnf...
Besides the 300 having Basic works shocks, its bog stock and 9 years old.

The 90cc-110cc class needs attention, whats the answer?
I rememebr when there was Hondas 90cc and Suzuki 80's and the Eton 2 stroke hit the track, How did everyone think we all felt back then?
We were Glad our kids were moving into Blasters.
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www.waquadmx.com

[bullet]

Well let's mix the two up then.....
A few weeks ago, I had a blast on a 90cc CVT 4 stroke.
The new 'Outlaw'.
Not expecting very much, I was actually impressed.
We (SA) might have one coming over to the Nat's.
They'll be interesting?
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Wadey]

This little topic seems to have hit a raw nerve, possibly mine also! ---I've built plenty of CVT 2ees over the years and I'd give almost anything to be able to convert them to shifter boxes, modified to extreme, with a shifter and with a decent chassis theyd be competitive to the Cobra. [ how much work do you wanna do? ] Beauty of a Cobra is it comes out of the box with all you need to work with. I met the Hetrick crew a few times last year at the track in US, he had LT 80's going as good or better than any other CVT, but kept breaking cases. He reckoned the LT was the best CVT motor though, but there wasnt a hope in hell of making it compete with the purpose built Cobra, they are not in the same class, incredibly fast compared to the modified CVT's. I SEEN IT WITH MY OWN EYES!! Sort of glad my youngest will move up to Blasters next year, trouble is the politics of this class will still go on until the rules are looked at. The US went through this a few years back, and the classes are now set accordingly.I actually raised the Cobra /CVT/4 stoke issue with QRCV last year. As a parent who has kids go all they way into seniors, when they finally get to ride equipment = to everyone else, that soon sorts out the pecking order. Watch out for young Mitch VanVliet when he gets there!

[racefan]

Totally in support of your comments Wadey, its not a matter of sour grapes, its a mater of getting it right. We don't want our rules to discourage the GROWTH we need.

[Q67Dazza]

Comments and opinions are great….that’s what the forums R 4

Workable solutions are even better

Do we want the Cobra’s banned,,cause they're bad for sport growth, with parents and kids spittin-it
Do we want the cobra's in their own class,, all 2 of them
Do we want them in a separate shifter class with modified TRX’s and Typhoons
It’s a numbers game remember,,if we are oversubscribing at events,,then why not spilt the class’s..
more options??
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M.A. want Junior Quad machine homologation like the 2 wheelers and a chart filed-out with all models and makes,,so-as to stick-it in the book,,with yearly model additions…$$$
M.A. may waive initial fee if NQAC set this up, but will then want their homologation fee from then-on with new models...$$$
Can’t imagine NQAC state reps agree-ing on that first chart
There would be a couple of years with real pain going down this route,,,can of worms,,but may be only real option for long term growth and the equity of a level playing field
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outlaw hybrid racing obviously gets no manufacture support or sponsorship.....can't be good for growth
if we had the M.A.chart,,you could not import what you want and just race-it
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007257 where are you???.... bring back the Bling

[PeteW]

Q67Dazza wrote:

Comments and opinions are great….that’s what the forums R 4 Workable solutions are even better Do we want the Cobra’s banned,,cause they're bad for sport growth, with parents and kids spittin-it Do we want the cobra's in their own class,, all 2 of them Do we want them in a separate shifter class with modified TRX’s and Typhoons It’s a numbers game remember,,if we are oversubscribing at events,,then why not spilt the class’s.. more options?? . M.A. want Junior Quad machine homologation like the 2 wheelers and a chart filed-out with all models and makes,,so-as to stick-it in the book,,with yearly model additions…$$$ M.A. may waive initial fee if NQAC set this up, but will then want their homologation fee from then-on with new models...$$$ Can’t imagine NQAC state reps agree-ing on that first chart There would be a couple of years with real pain going down this route,,,can of worms,,but may be only real option for long term growth and the equity of a level playing field . . . outlaw hybrid racing obviously gets no manufacture support or sponsorship.....can't be good for growth if we had the M.A.chart,,you could not import what you want and just race-it .

All possibilities worth looking into Daz, Wadey and I were talking about it today and another possible option would be to write into the junior capacity rulings that 2 Stroke shifters must not exceed 70cc, that would mean you could still race a standard Cobra but not with a big bore kit, may even the playing field somewhat.
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[Mrs_Gaitar]

Yep best ideas are ones that are written in one line....

self explanatory with no grey areas open for interpretation.
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www.waquadmx.com

[bullet]

That's probably a good idea Petey.

I wouldn't be too concerned if I was beaten by a Cobra, and I'm not going to spend $15,000 to try and catch one either. What ever keeps the racing close is best all round, for the sport and for everyone.

I'll bet one day you'll be able to buy an all alloy frame four valve head 114cc or 127cc race Typhoon with standard Elkas for $5999.
Not "if" but "when" that happens...

I guess in every form of motor sport the general push is to disadvantage two strokes to weed them out of the race scene.
Personally, I love the variety and the 2 stroke V 4 stroke challenge. I think the classes should be kept balanced. Only that will keep it interesting... so yeah maybe 70cc Cobras.
(they'll probably still kick our bums Pete)

But then I prefered the days when BMW's and Nissans raced with the V8's at Bathurst
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[47industries]

This is all very positive stuff people. I pretty much have to agree with everything so far.
As far as Locky from NT being 1 of only 2 Cobra racers in the country, keep in mind that he has to go up a class next year...that leaves 1.
His is a big bore Cobra too, but our Locky (Anderson) still got a couple of holeshots off him on the weekend on a Viper. Just a shame that the old Eton's handle like a house brick on a bowl of jelly.
Let's keep trying to nut this class out, so we can make a suggestion to the NQAC and move on. This is in my opinion the most important class to get right out of all of them (besides Jumbos of course, sorry Bullet).
Mick@47
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The way to this man's heart is through his esky

[bullet]

I like Peteys idea Mick.
I'd hate to see Cobras banned all together.
Just 70cc limit.
I think the Fun Police will go for that, It's not like the Cobras will be being promoted as the only 2 stroke future in junior quads then.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Wadey]

Hey Pete, who's idea was that???? Seems its the best idea so far, [ but keen to hear more ] I also would not want to see Cobras excluded, just a fairer playing field. If I was a super optimist, and our junior numbers could skyrocket, maybe in the distant future we might get the numbers to run a seperate class. Above all, I think everyone must remember we need to grow these junior classes, they are the future of this sport, Brett Clissod was telling me this arvo that he can remember well when Cam was riding 90's, --- doesnt seem that long ago!! The sport needs more juniors to go all the way through.

[PeteW]

Wadey wrote:

Hey Pete, who's idea was that???? Seems its the best idea so far, [ but keen to hear more ]

I did say that You and I had been talking about it....
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