OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Dino]

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/laws-to-put-curbs-on-farm-quad-bikes/story-fn59niix-1226175633601
This is NSW now and going National.
And while I support the proposals in principle, somehow I reckon that both enforcement and some practicalities are going to cause some issues.

I'm a country lad.
Enforcement. Bloody big country, and most WHSO come out after a event.
A lot of those kids are responsible beyond their years. And are needed to help the family business.
Helmets, especially these new style ones, certainly help. But how many adults, let alone kids wear them on push-bikes? I guess they've got a 6 months amnesty to make up their own minds, and possible fines/injury/death could also help.
And bugger that ROPS idea.
The manufacturers got a thumbs up BTW.
A pity that the hints and tips provided are not part of a national accreditation the same as jet-skis, bobcats and tinnies.

More here. Please listen to the audio from a few minutes in for about 3 minutes. Very informative.
http://www.abc.net.au/rural/nsw/content/2011/10/s3347579.htm?site=sydney
They are calling for text comments on 0467 922 684.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[priesty]

Interesting that they use a photo of a sport quad instead of farm quad, but at least he had a helmet on.
I agree with you Dino, we need a national all-encompassing solution, not a piecemeal approach concieved only to appease OHS regulators.
Having said that, if the helmet laws do prove to minimise reportable deaths & injuries related to quad use it improves our standing as rec riders who have always advocated the use of safety gear.
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The term "Foolproof" seriously underestimates the ingenuity of Fools.


08 700xx

[Mrs_Gaitar]

removed
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Last edited by Mrs_Gaitar on Sat Oct 29, 2011 12:24 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Ozpilot]

priesty wrote:

Interesting that they use a photo of a sport quad instead of farm quad, but at least he had a helmet on.

Maybe it was too difficult to find a photo of a farm quad with the rider wearing a helmet.

[just doin it]

[quote="Mrs_Gaitar"]amazing its taken this to teach stupid farmers to wear a helment.

We often get the "Stupid Farmers" phrase on here, well i don`t doubt there are a few out there, but seriously are they any more so than the toolbangers we see almost everywhere we go and ride. Media publishises the fatalities of farmers, and don`t get me wrong , any loss is one too many. Start branding "Farmers" as stupid and watch the places we ride go by the wayside. The "Finke Desert Race", "Condo 750", 'Thump Pump", "Thunder X", "Gasdash" and many more, all have a huge input by "Farmers". I`m a "Farmer", organise a lot of 2 and 4 wheel events, reckon i`m fairly responsable, can ride a bit, along with all the helpers we have . Brand us all as "Stupid Farmers" and you will see some resentment, we the Farmers not only put your bread, meat, milk and vegies on the shelve, we sometimes give you a place to ride.
I don`t want to get into some great debate over this , but sometimes select your opinions diplomatically.
75% of the time i ride without a helment, [on the farm] but in saying that we are getting more and more aware of the fact we should wear one , and do.

Useless bit of information; did you know more people get hurt or die from playing the stock market than riding quads!
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JUST DOIN IT

[Dino]

The number of quad injuries and fatalaties mentioned.....
In the context of overall farm use, is actually quite low.
Every day, millions of people go about the daily duties in this country, and they will do it again tomorrow.
A perfect world would be nice, but it will never happen.

I've yet to see these new helmets, so I can't comment on them,
but I will say that there is occasions when a lid is not practical.
Anyone else try wearing one in tropical or outback heat at sustained low speeds? I also hunt with quads and firearms........
In both those instances, the lid is off, and the style of riding reflects that ommision of safety equipment.
But otherwise it should be used, inspite of the percieved inconvenience IMHO.

This National Quad Safety Stategy Committee, I hope they have some input from real users too. I really hate the entire "Nanny State"
thing, but I'd rather a more balanced and realistic approach to problematic behaviour than some draconian big stick approach.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[PJSRZR]

I never really get involved in that much discussion here about these type of issues but I will now. As a family involved farmer, a parent, a horsebreeder and Polaris dealer, I think I can comment on both sides of the issue. For one thing, if you speak to the medical people in the bush, most will tell you horses are far more dangerous than ATV's. So are horse riders also to be labelled "STUPID". Why have we not insisted on helmets for riders and compulsory horse riding classes. Is this whole issue just a "trendy" media beat-up????. In my family alone, ALL OUR MAJOR ACCIDENTS HAVE BEEN FROM OUR HORSES and not the ATV's.

Life is dangerous and I am not against ever trying to improve safety across any industry or profession. But sometimes the whole arguement gets out of balance and just focuses on one easy target. How does my 14yo 6ft tall boy ride a small kids quad 15kms out to the back of our property to help muster cattle in rough terrain? What do we do for the farmer west of Moree who was found passed out suffering from heat exhaustion because his bike helmet in summer had overheated him when riding slowly behind a mob of sheep?? Every situation is different, there is no easy answer.

IN some ways though the whole arguement is a little behind the times. We are seeing a massive shift to SXS units here and in the US. We now sell as many SXS as ATV's so I think the market is already heading in a different direction anyway.

Phil

[priesty]

It's unfortunate, but we're all being judged by our worst actions.
For recreational riders it's the hoons doin donuts & blasting through campsites, whilst for the farmers it's the OHS accidents where safety requirements are not adhered to.
At the end of the day the general public (& the legislators) will lump us all in together along with the 2 wheelers & 4X4 folk as environmental vandals, it's up to all of us to change their perception.
_________________
The term "Foolproof" seriously underestimates the ingenuity of Fools.


08 700xx

[Dino]

The Dubbo announcement mentioned earlier....
http://sl.farmonline.com.au/news/nationalrural/machinery-and-equipment/general/quadbike-training-package-now-in-gear/2336801.aspx

97% haven't done any sort of course.....
I know they are easy to ride and.....
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[JB83]

So if a farmer goes out and buys a farm oriented 2 wheeler he won't have to worry about the helmet issue cause only atv's come under the "dangerous" banner. Interesting fact from Geoff Udy who is a Can-Am dealer is that when servicing outlanders he sells to farmers the computer tells him the average speed is 20km/hr. Heat exhaustion would cetainly be an issue with a full face helmet at that speed.

Also the "stupid farmers" comment is not warranted and quite offensive. I happen to be a farmer and am very proud of the work i do even though most the time it goes unappreciated from the general community.

[cowchaser]

JB and Just doing it well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I,m going to bite my tongue because I wouldnt of put it as well as you guys.

but I will say this
Most city people and all politicians have NFI!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Smitty

[Rotax46]

cowchaser wrote:

but I will say this Most city people and all politicians have NFI!!!!!!!!!!!!

And to top it off you will get some city people that have 20 acres of hobby farm 20minutes from the city and no kids with the politicians approval telling farmers how to do their job when they have NFI themselves.
_________________
Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

[Linc]

cowchaser wrote:

JB and Just doing it well said!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I,m going to bite my tongue because I wouldnt of put it as well as you guys. but I will say this Most city people and all politicians have NFI!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm one of them.....the city guy not the politician......and am concerned by the amount of deaths on quads. Irrespective of useage (fun or work) the overall percentage of riders killed not useing a helmet is ridiculous. I remember one report covering 50 or so incedents with about 90% not waring a helmet. OK not all of the deaths were because of head injuries BUT 90% is a worrying statistic.

Unlike many city guys I do know there any more issues to be considered than just FARMERS DONT WARE HELMETS.......THE SKY IS FALLING

Waring a helmet is sometimes impracticle and Rollover Protection creates as many issues as it solves.

What is the answer?.........is there a happy medium? If the quad community cant come up with an answer then who can?........who will?

Linc

[bullet]

The answer needs to include that FARMS could be seen as a demanding work environment which can be dangerous.
Aussie farmers work hard and do it tough. Compared to most livelyhoods, they probably encounter way more hazzards and variation in those hazzards everyday.
There workplace is largely unregulated and unsupervised, and the farmer does it all.

If farmers rode horses would they be any safer?
How many farmers have accidents on 2 wheelers?
Are tractors perfectly safe?
What about impliments, chainsaws, post hole diggers, even axes or fencing wire for that matter?
Snake bites, rivers, guns.... the list goes on.

Perhaps ATV safety is the tiniest issue.
As 'Just doin it' said, more people die playing the stock market than Quad accidents.
How many people die from lightening strikes and Bee stings...
are we going to ban Honey in Australia because it promotes increased Bee numbers?

Yeah lets shift the Media to pushing to have Honey banned first, that's the answer.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Linc]

bullet wrote:

The answer needs to include that FARMS could be seen as a demanding work environment which can be dangerous. Aussie farmers work hard and do it tough. Compared to most livelyhoods, they probably encounter way more hazzards and variation in those hazzards everyday. There workplace is largely unregulated and unsupervised, and the farmer does it all. If farmers rode horses would they be any safer? How many farmers have accidents on 2 wheelers? Are tractors perfectly safe? What about impliments, chainsaws, post hole diggers, even axes or fencing wire for that matter? Snake bites, rivers, guns.... the list goes on. Perhaps ATV safety is the tiniest issue. As 'Just doin it' said, more people die playing the stock market than Quad accidents. How many people die from lightening strikes and Bee stings... are we going to ban Honey in Australia because it promotes increased Bee numbers? Yeah lets shift the Media to pushing to have Honey banned first, that's the answer.

All very good points and as I've said the most dangerous passtime in Australia is Fishing. But are you saying your possition is "do nothing"?

Linc

[bullet]

After we ban Honey... I supose we could start on fishing rods, and then seriously look at shutting down the stock exchange.

I supose if ATV incidents are deemed unacceptably high, then it's only logical that it too gets a proportionate amount of attention.
I guess the government will consider all the facts (along with the media hype) and determine how much they put into things like awareness campaigns and where to aim them.
Cancer effects something like 1 in 3 people, and they seem to spend a hell of a lot of money on anti smoking adds.
At the same time the government supports cigarette sales, and seem quite happy to collect big taxes from it.
Polies are just more comfortable harbouring a negative opinion on banning ATV's rather than a completely obvious killer like Cigarettes I supose.
Which one do you think most of them would ban first?
So I would not even try to guess what bureaucratic logic might be a best fit for accidents on farms.

In the meantime, I 100% support that all ATV operators should wear some sort of helmet when operating an ATV.
A paramedic once told me... If you are going faster than you can run, you should be wearing a helmet, because our skulls were only ever designed to do their job reasonably effectively up to about that speed.
Another obvious one I support, is that younger kids should not be operating drastically inappropriately sized ATV's in any environment.
Awareness should fix both of those two issues and maybe more than halve the number of dreadful incidents.

There are a lot of people looking at a more suitable helmet for farmers, and some have been released only recently. They should probably look at Australian Standards for different purpose helmets too.
One good thing that might come from the negative attention is that this more suitable helmet concept will get through.

Putting a photo of a kid riding a sport quad over a jump with a helmet on, on the front of a document which suggests improvement for ATV accidents across Australia sends the wrong message about where the real problem is.
It's about as accurate and as smart as suggesting roll bars and seat belts for quads.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[stryker]

What about wearing helmets in cars that should reduce the road toll!!!!

[Dino]

I tend to agree with a lot of Bullets points, even though I like honey.
This attention is a good thing though.
Because once the Federal Govt gets involved, we move away from the talk fest at State levels. ( Which is more like beaurocratic tennis. )
It won't happen overnight, but it will happen.
I see the recognition as a step towards accepting quads, which has been a huge problem @ State Govt Levels, in that some authorities would provide for us, while others choose to ignore our existance, which leaves users determining what and how they do things, much to the annoyance of some authorities.

As to who will be involved? Should be involved.
We are represented in MA, though it's hardly a big part of their overall workings. And MA does SFA for anthing other than competitive events.
Certainly the manufacturers have been doing this OS.
Thinking about the many rec users, and farmers and other working quads, I really hope that real quad riders are involved in working out practical training, registration and licensing, not just amatuer office jocks trying to lawyer-proof something they do not fully understand.
The training document is a lot better than the, adapted, ride-on mower course but it's fairly flimsy in a lot of areas........
As Phil said, the SxS market is growing, and that should be part of what develops, but quads will be here for a good while yet.

As for banning, that's a scary word. While the media and certain pollies love that word, banning quads isn't going to happen. It would only force them to commit huge resources and money to tackle it. And I don't reckon they've enough in the jam tin to do it.......

The numbers sold annually are huge, the health, enviromental, economic and social benefits far outwiegh the very small, by percentage, number of incidents.
It actually makes sense that they( The Govt) pull their fingers out, get some real figures, involve some real users and get on with it.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[bullet]

stryker wrote:

What about wearing helmets in cars that should reduce the road toll!!!!

It's illegal to wear a helmet when driving a car on the road.
Way back in about 1993, a mate of mine actually got fined for it.

Obstruction to the drivers vision aparently.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[stryker]

Thanks bullet the missus will be happy with that.

[priesty]

It appears we're not the only country suffering at the hands of skewed reporting, see below excerpt from a US site complaining about unbalanced journalism.

"ABC News Attacks ATVs
On Thursday, October 28, 2010, ABC Nightly News and ABC Nightline featured reports on the Deadly Dangers Of ATVs. As with similar reports of years past, these programs slanted their reporting in such a manner as to imply that ATVs were highly dangerous machines, especially in regard to youth riders and teenage riders."

Click links to [...]
Unfortunately couldn't access the links from outside U.S.
_________________
The term "Foolproof" seriously underestimates the ingenuity of Fools.


08 700xx

[Dino]

http://www.sheppnews.com.au/article.aspx?id=1247823
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[priesty]

So two fatalities, one 11 yrs old & one 94 yrs of age, neither of them would be let loose in a car, or be licensed to drive one for that matter.
Pretty self explanatory I would've thought.

But I'm sure the "those machines be the devil" opinion will prevail.
_________________
The term "Foolproof" seriously underestimates the ingenuity of Fools.


08 700xx

[phil58]

Heres another one.
http://www.standard.net.au/news/local/news/general/woolsthorpe-teen-injured-on-quad-bike/2440998.aspx
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Phil.....

[skidplate]

Bullet's angle is right. Geometrically speaking
I often hear the opinion that "quads are dangerous" from people who have never ridden one and have no idea.
Why are journos and pollies so eager to comment on this topic ?
Are quads just that cool that it guarantees that people will buy the newspaper?

There are obviously quite a few contributors to this forum who have monetary interest in quad community's wellbeing. Dealers etc.
I never seem to come across a press statement from any sort of a quad association.

My SUGGESTION :

Let's politicise this forum.
Everytime a newspaper writes a story that is not fully true about quads, the spokesman for this community should reply and demand that the reply be published.
Once united we could push through my favourite, the registration issue.