OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[KILLASAKI]

Best thing i did was get my bike dyno'd.it's only mods are twin HMF exhaust,k&n plus more air,and jets.
end result was 38hp at the wheels with a perfct air fuel ratio.
The auto made it hard to get an accurate reading.





Cuzo spent a bit more on his pred and pumped out 55hp at the wheels.






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[Ozzy84]

is that a car dyno?

seems to be getting good results

[KILLASAKI]

yes it is, a bike dyno is only set up for single wheels.
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[Ozzy84]

most places ive seen just have a set of rollers beside the dyno for quads.

only thing i dont like about dyno dynamics dyno's (it looks like one) are there a bit happy, and figures can fluctuate to much. dont know if zac has these problems with his??

[Prokiwi]

im surprised u managed to get an accurate reading with dirt tyres on ...dyno's need to have slicks to get anywhere near close to realistic numbers......
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[Explosive]

Well Prokiwi im suprised you say that.
If ive dyno a bike with nobbys before and after and we and you use the exact same tyre do you think thats most accurate on the bike.
Example. Dyno yellow sub with a nobby and a slick we seen a differance of 1-2hp.
Dyno 2 Banshees over 90hp with slicks and nobbys 2-3hp differance.
Dyno the Jet both ways also 1-2hp so i thinks it really dosent matter what tyre your running the dynois only used as a tunning tool.
Example on the weekend our 107hp Banshee came up against our 93hp Ds the dyno didnt win that race and i dont think it will win any!
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OVER 650cc POWER ADDER
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[Prokiwi]

Hi Jet , that really surprises me , ive been involved in dynoing many quads and have always found we get too much "slippage" with nobblys to get accurate readings in 4th Gear on a roller dyno.
Only when ive used a "live drive " single attached directly to the hub do we not have this problem.

I understand what u r saying , that the difference before and after Dyno is the main factor .
However im interested to know how you reduce or minimise the slipage to allow an accurate reading .....
Its a fact that a treaded tire provides less grip ( or surface area) than a slick on a hard surface , etc , therefore I would have assumed this would provide inconsistant drive or "traction" to the roller. ???.
If what u r saying is correct then why would you bother with a slick on , say , a drag car ??.

Not disputing your comments in any way , just have dynod with different results.
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[Explosive]

Well what i do i dyno all my bike in top gear heavily strapped front and rear.
Is the dyno your dynoing on calibrated and ramp speeds adjusted to the load setting i have had the anersher adusted to suit my application.
The only time we find any form of slippage is when we spray NOS and even you can see the wheel spin on your chart.
If you dont have any slipage with the first run and you get any on the second run why do you need a slick for any run.
I dont know of any performane shop in Sydney that bolts on slicks to dyno cars.
_________________
FOUR STROKE WARS CHAMPIONS USA 2009
KING OF THE HILL (GLAMIS C.A)
OVER 650cc POWER ADDER
UNLIMTED / CHASISS

HOME OF THE FASTEST TURBO RAPTOR

WWW.EXPLOSIVERACING.COM.AU
Ph:(02) 95338242

[Ozzy84]

most wont let you, slicks last about 5 seconds on dynos for cars any way, there to soft, they just spray rubber everywhere, and there "profanity removed" for traction anyway on a dyno coz of there soft sidewalls.

slicks etc isnt the key to reducing slippage on a dyno (for cars any way) just strapping it down tighter/better is.

besides, chassis dyno are fuggen hopeless anyway, only 2 real 'dynos' are the 1/4 mile or an engine dyno

[KILLASAKI]

well i was happy with the end result and so was cuzo.his before and after showed almost a 10hp gain,same tyres &same dyno so i think if your using the same equipment each time you'll get the readings your after.and at the end of the day its what happens on the track.
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[Prokiwi]

Thanks for that insight Jet ....
we strap for safety , but use ride adjusted weight to calibrate.

As for a car dyno ...road tyres are considerably better than knobblys so u wouldn't put slicks on them.

I was only referring to maximum traction ...... if Knobblys were as good as a slick or "non treaded pattern.then I would use them on my drag car ...... and the reason i dont is because there is no way in the physicial world i could ever get close to the traction of a slick.

The quad dyno guys ive come across in the USA will only dyno with Slicks also.


Look forward to meeting with u on a trip down that way ....

cheers
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[Explosive]

Nice to know PROKIWI.
Look forward to meeting up with you.
Hopefullly you can come down in May with the QLD Club.
_________________
FOUR STROKE WARS CHAMPIONS USA 2009
KING OF THE HILL (GLAMIS C.A)
OVER 650cc POWER ADDER
UNLIMTED / CHASISS

HOME OF THE FASTEST TURBO RAPTOR

WWW.EXPLOSIVERACING.COM.AU
Ph:(02) 95338242

[4stroker]

what was done to that predator to get 55rwhp?? you said a 10hp gain before and after, was it standard before?

just for comparisons sake my local bike shop's dyno has seen the following: (bike dyno with roller for other wheel and all quads use slicks/hoosiers)

03 predator 500: big bore kit, vortex, pipe filter port job may even have a cam not sure? 47rwhp

07 raptor 700: high comp piston, port, filter pipe and ignition/fuel module = 52rwhp

07 yfz450: filter pipe vortex no lid 44rwhp

banshee with pipes filter no lid = 41rwhp

03 YZ450f (bike) port pipe vortex filter air box mod = 52rwhp

not trying to start an argument or anything i too think of the dyno as just a tuning tool and the hp figures dont mean squat, however IMO explosive's reads a little high
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2002 SE Banshee

[Ozzy84]

or your local shop reads low?

[Explosive]

Hi 4 Stroker we use a car dyno(dyno dynamics)which a little differant to what your using.
Our dyno may be happy but we look at the end result which is how the bike actually performs and runs.
Our results are proven on the track were it counts most.
_________________
FOUR STROKE WARS CHAMPIONS USA 2009
KING OF THE HILL (GLAMIS C.A)
OVER 650cc POWER ADDER
UNLIMTED / CHASISS

HOME OF THE FASTEST TURBO RAPTOR

WWW.EXPLOSIVERACING.COM.AU
Ph:(02) 95338242

[rapmat]

my 2c worth

if you put a stock quad on any dyno and it reads say 45hp then its taken away retuned ported jetted or whatever. then bought back to the exact same dyno with the same rear tyres as before,and it now reads a 55hp. the readings are a great indicator of the hp gains for the work performed. so all this dribble about the dynos being "happy" etc is all sh%# as the results show a true before and after with no other variables apart from the engine work.
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[4stroker]

rapmat wrote:

my 2c worth if you put a stock quad on any dyno and it reads say 45hp then its taken away retuned ported jetted or whatever. then bought back to the exact same dyno with the same rear tyres as before,and it now reads a 55hp. the readings are a great indicator of the hp gains for the work performed. so all this dribble about the dynos being "happy" etc is all sh%# as the results show a true before and after with no other variables apart from the engine work.

no one is dribblin sh*t mate this is the general chit chat area of the forum and this is all we are doing...

like i said before i totally agree that they should just be used as a tuning tool and yes you are right before and after readings under the same conditions are a great indicator of work performed, however still not an accurate "horsepower" reading.

zac hope you havent taken offense or anything i think your workshop is a great outfit i have bought some banshee pipes off you for a mate and will buy more stuff in the future!

thanks, mark.
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2002 SE Banshee

[Prokiwi]

dont forget air density ( humidity ) from one day to the next can make a difference as well.

dont underestimate the science behind doing dyno runs ....

it takes a lot of hrs ( usually unpaid) of testing and R & D to get the best results...... all dyno's are different and will show a different story .

I believe the art is in the dyno "person" or technician, as to how they interprate the results. And the owner "seat of the panst" feel once completed.

Numbers mean nothing if u come second across the line ......

remember torque numbers are not often discussed , however play a much bigger part in the practical result. I never here many people talking about the "torque increase"


definately an interesting subject and good to be able to air peoples beliefs here. We are all often misguided by well meaning people. (look at the experts in the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! ). Kiwi's and Aussies can still show them a thing or two !
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[cowchaser]

[quote][/no one is dribblin sh*t mate this is the general chit chat area of the forum and this is all we are doing...

like i said before i totally agree that they should just be used as a tuning tool and yes you are right before and after readings under the same conditions are a great indicator of work performed, however still not an accurate "horsepower" reading.

zac hope you havent taken offense or anything i think your workshop is a great outfit i have bought some banshee pipes off you for a mate and will buy more stuff in the future!

thanks, mark.
quote]

I have very limited dyno knowledge but from what I understand believe the above post to be true, it is a tuning device to mesure gains in power is it not?

But can somone tell me what a Horsepower is and how it is calibrated? It sounds like a very old fasion and out of date value in power to me. I think if you got 50 horses teamed up they would pull alot more than a quad with a pipe and some head work. It sounds like everybody has a diffrent idea of what HP is
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Smitty

[yfz450]

[quote="cowchaser"]

Quote:

[/no one is dribblin sh*t mate this is the general chit chat area of the forum and this is all we are doing... like i said before i totally agree that they should just be used as a tuning tool and yes you are right before and after readings under the same conditions are a great indicator of work performed, however still not an accurate "horsepower" reading. zac hope you havent taken offense or anything i think your workshop is a great outfit i have bought some banshee pipes off you for a mate and will buy more stuff in the future! thanks, mark. quote] I have very limited dyno knowledge but from what I understand believe the above post to be true, it is a tuning device to mesure gains in power is it not? But can somone tell me what a Horsepower is and how it is calibrated? It sounds like a very old fasion and out of date value in power to me. I think if you got 50 horses teamed up they would pull alot more than a quad with a pipe and some head work. It sounds like everybody has a diffrent idea of what HP is

Power is the result of an amount of work continuously done over period of time

e.g P= W/t

W=work
t=time

Work is defined in terms of linear or rotational effort, when the result produced by the effort is the movement or rotation of a body.

the unit of power follows from the definition and is equal to one joule of work per second of time, e.g J/s. The name given to the SI (International System of Units)unit of power is watt, denoted by W. Care must be taken to avoid confusion between W as a symbol for work done and W as a unit symbol for power

The SI unit was nmed after Scottish engineer James Watt who, in the late 18th century, according to a historical anecdote, established another unit of power called HORSEPOWER, after actual experience with strong dray horses. The horsepower, equal to 746 watts is about 50% more than the rate that an average horse can sustain for a working day

[rapmat]

[

no one is dribblin sh*t mate this is the general chit chat area of the forum and this is all we are doing...

like i said before i totally agree that they should just be used as a tuning tool and yes you are right before and after readings under the same conditions are a great indicator of work performed, however still not an accurate "horsepower" reading.

zac hope you havent taken offense or anything i think your workshop is a great outfit i have bought some banshee pipes off you for a mate and will buy more stuff in the future!

thanks, mark.[/quote]

not meant to be offensive mark ... like i said just my 2c worth and thats proberly overstating its true value at that.i do agree its not more than a tuning tool and true hp readings ARE something of a red herring YFZ450 when did you get so philosophical and down right educated lol. an interesting subject to say the least hope i didnt dribble too much sh%$ for your liking

matt
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[cowchaser]

yfz450 wrote:

The SI unit was nmed after Scottish engineer James Watt who, in the late 18th century, according to a historical anecdote, established another unit of power called HORSEPOWER, after actual experience with strong dray horses. The horsepower, equal to 746 watts is about 50% more than the rate that an average horse can sustain for a working day

Ahh thanks DR Adam PHD
It's as clear as mud now.
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Smitty

[yfz450]

cowchaser wrote:

Ahh thanks DR Adam PHD It's as clear as mud now.

no probs , any time

[4stroker]

rapmat wrote:

[ not meant to be offensive mark ... like i said just my 2c worth and thats proberly overstating its true value at that.i do agree its not more than a tuning tool and true hp readings ARE something of a red herring YFZ450 when did you get so philosophical and down right educated lol. an interesting subject to say the least hope i didnt dribble too much sh%$ for your liking matt

yeah too easy mate everyone has their opinion ay and like i said this is the area of the forum for this sort of chit chat!

as someone said before the 1/4 mile is the only true indicator of horsepower but even then i think it is only if you have the perfect conditions and traction etc??

a mate of mine ran an 11.70 on his YZ450F at the drags not too long ago, anyone know how to calc the horsepower for that time? not sure of the elapsed speed i suppose you need to know that too...
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2002 SE Banshee

[mildgen]

horsepower is torque(feet/pounds) times by rpm divided by 5252.

for instance raptor 700 vs yfz 450, diferent delivery of power but relatively similar peak horse power... raptor has more torque but less rpm,yfz has less torque but more rpm.


dyno dynamics dynos are considered to be one of the best dynos for tuning. they have software that analyse the relative humitity,temp and some other factors (all the ones ive seen anyway), it calculates these into the results... ie say one day the temp is 0 the next is 40, the motor should make more power at 0 degrees than it would at 40 degrees... the software knows this and adjusts the results to suit.... in theory this allows the same operater to check for gains or losses from parts or tuning.