OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Dino]

Concerned clubs, groups and individuals have until November this year to make submissions.....

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/parks_and_forests/managing_parks_and_forests/management_plans_and_strategies/parks_master_plan.html

BTW, sustainable usage has no petrol power..........
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[The Jackal]

Hey Mate,
I'll sit down when I have some time off and knock out a submission. I smelt the stench of a Green's agenda as I quickly read through it. The ironic thing you and I know after out trail rides is the state government that smoke screens the population with "green" sound bites and quotes but the fact is the native bush is in a mess and over run with feral flora and fauna and that's WITH government control...
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Dino]

Going by past experience, they don't have to spend much money when they close access for nearly everyone.......they can stuff off.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[The Jackal]

I've given them my response... their proposals sound like the usual government bulls*it intended to make the public think they care and will look after us. It also has the foul stench of the greens all over it!
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Dino]

this is what one submission sent to DERM looks like:

Hi There,
a friend of mine drew my attention to the fact that "you" are looking for public submissions to the use and access of public lands. I send you this email with a lot of skepticism given I believe you will pick and choose what fits YOUR plan and will allow you to say, "hey look we listened"!

But here goes any way. Most of the state knows that we have been broke for the best part of a decade and I can understand that forests and plantations are a long way down the list of things to spend money on but what I will never comprehend is why any government dept would refuse free public help to manage public lands. A number of times our quad club has approached DERM to allow us to first ride in the state forests and pine plantations (I'll come back to the list of advantages that that would allow later) and in turn monitor what's need to be fixed and while we there clear tracks covered in fallen trees and weeds.

It should be remembered that while you are tasked with managing public lands they are owned by the people and banning access to hide the poor condition they are in isn't managing.

I have been using public lands both professionally and socially for decades and with out doubt they have never looked worse than they do now after nearly 20 years of this states most incompetent government. Here is what I think you should do to reverse the rot:

1. Allow access to all public lands to vehicles both fully AND conditionally registered. There is a large problem of public lands being used for illegal dumping, drug cultivation etc and allowing "legal" access would increase the number eyes in these areas and decrease their attractiveness to illegal activities.
2. Stop following your "green" agenda. It is allowing feral flora and fauna to overtake public lands.
3. Introduce the "R" shooters permit to allow licensed shooters to clear the millions of feral animals that are infesting public lands. I recently heard that land owners in FNQ have had C&D class shooters licenses by the PD because DERM stated that Qld (FNQ in particular) doesn't have a feral pig problem! Who the hell is advising DERM? All of Qld is being over run with feral animals not just pigs and not just FNQ and fyi... a LOT of feral animals use public land as a safe haven... I am 52 years old and have been shooting since I was 11 and hunting since my teens... I have NEVER seen so many feral animals as there are at the moment and while some of this is due to the rains it is also this ANTI gun/green agenda favored by the present state government. Please don't tell me that there are alternatives to shooting to control ferals. I have seen the damages that poison and trapping does to native animals in person!
4. Allow the public to volunteer their time and money to clean up and maintain public lands.

If you ignore the problems or hide them from the public by restricting legal access they won't go away and in a lot of cases will get worse.

Regards,

Very disenchanted quad riding forest user.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Predatory]

Hey Dino, good luck mate with all your endeavours. I have given up and come back to Perth. Now that I am back and see what there is for quads here, man Qld is really in the dark ages!
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Its not if you win or lose but how you enjoyed the ride!

[Dino]

Predatory wrote:

Hey Dino, good luck mate with all your endeavours. I have given up and come back to Perth. Now that I am back and see what there is for quads here, man Qld is really in the dark ages!

Dark times indeed, but there is signs of light.
I'll pass your comments on.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Kymanic]

I got talking to a senior fire fighter the other day (who doesn't ride) about the forestry and he said it was a ridiculous law DERM have enforced, because through his eyes, the recreational riders/ drivers (bikes, quads and 4wd's) clear the fire breaks for them. Food for thought from an unbiased opinion. I've sent my submission in, in writing.
I went in with a different approach this time, see what comes of it.
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Aspire to Inspire

[Dino]

I put my submission in.....

"Hello.

My name is Dino. I wish to submit some of the following for consideration for your Master Plan 2020. I'd like to tell a little of myself to qualify my opinions.

I am Brisbane based, 51 years young and a long time user of forests and National Parks Australia wide. I love the biodiversity and the beauty. Pastimes which I have included in my use of these public areas well over 40 years have included camping, bushwalking, orienteering, geocaching, feral animal control and 4 wheel drive touring. This love affair started with my family as a child, and continues today.

I have worked for a variety of Government Authorities and private concerns within the construction and communications industries. Self employed as a consultant and provider of foundations in domestic and commercial works for twelve years. I am about to become a CERT IV trainer and assessor.

I have used a varieties of trucks, machines, conventional cars, 4wd's, canoes, push bikes, quad bikes, trail bikes and my poor old feet to get about. I've been a active member of several clubs and organisations. These include Search and Rescue within the NSW SES and the Far North Quad Riders Inc.

It is with the last and current group that have lead to my dealings with DERM's TVI section via our bi-annual meetings chaired by QORF. And I will take this opportunity to express my heartfelt thanks to these two groups. They have made communication much simpler, effective and progress is being made on many fronts. I have more suggestions on this matter below.

It is with sadness that I've noted the spiraling neglect, abuse and consequential closure of access to many former clean and popular areas. It is with great concern that I note the exploding numbers of feral animals within these areas. And absolute disgust at the vandalism and rubbish, including toxic substances, that pervade what was once open and public areas.

By the above I refer to our beaches, pine plantations, protected areas and National Parks. As a concerned user of these areas, raised on the likes of "tread lightly" and "bring it in-take it out" campaigns, I must strongly suggest that penalising the majority for minorities behaviour has failed dismally.

Realistically speaking, I am very aware of funding constraints and the need for protection of these areas. But the resulting removal of the majority of users through policy has removed one of the biggest deterrents to illegal and criminal behaviour, eyes and ears in those places. This carte blanch approach without checks and balances has left the undesirable element with a virtual monopoly. The well behaved, but otherwise also illegal entrants, can only look on in horror as the thugs and vandals run amuck fully aware that few forms of enforcement are immediately available. Simply put, let the public back in as a deterrent.

To this end, and in relation to this quote from your publication..."QPWS has a responsibility under a range of legislation to ensure that any natural resource use or necessary development within protected areas and forests is undertaken with minimal impact and managed sustainably." I would suggest some of the following be examined for the ecological, environmental , economic and social benefits. These benefits would be mutually beneficial. To DERM staff, management and users.

Public consultations. If it not for the work of DERM's TVI section with our clubs membership of QORF, I and many others would not be sharing our thoughts on proposals in this fashion. It would more likely to be in the form of a chance meeting with a field operative, with possible confrontation AFTER the event. I have been advised that these bi-annual meetings, with other established relationships represent less than 3% of all forest users. 3% is hardly a mandate. Possibly a paid editorial in a wide reaching medium would help get further feel for public expectation. It could certainly be better promoted!
Checks and balances. What provision for change, feedback and adaption are provided for within the Master Plan?
The restrictions of Group Activity Permits. In all fairness, the very small percentage of users are constantly passed by much larger groups of "non-registered" users. We put in submissions and fees and are responsible and accountable. Fair go, hey? We are all in favour of permits and regulation, but to compare it to road use, it's like only one minority colour of motor vehicle is paying and held responsible for everything else.
Individual Permit System. Bring it back! As well over 90% of forest and Nat Park users are not members of a incorporated body or club, this is where the most use of regulation will be obtained. Whether human or mechanical powered, a fee for access simply makes sense. Part of the permit system could require a consent of conditions and requirements, like a code of conduct ( sample attatchment below. Appendix A ). As the controlling authority, DERM and it's sub departments already has ample legislation for infringements and penalties, such as in the Recreational Areas Management Act. My own surveys strongly support paying a fee for legal access to non-protected areas. Nearly three thousand verbally surveyed would happily pay $100 per annum for legal access of 4wd's, motor bikes and quad bikes provided the funds attained went back into maintenance and facilities. Such a system would allow a for a more real management tool. Similarly, the more adventurous who partake in the like of dedicated sports such abseiling, rock-climbing and caving are happy to contribute to access. In any case, people are and will use forestry and National Parks for recreation, whether it is allowed or not.
Community Groups working with field staff. Many would like to adopt-a-track, help with maintenance, clean-ups of man-made and natural disasters and help provide facilities. The administrative hurdles and PLI compliance are ridiculous. The fear of "what if?" seems to be directing all other management. Get that sorted and watch, and help us, the public and owners of these lands, help you to improve the status quo.
Where to go and what we can do. We used to be able to go on line and look this up for motorised activities. Over the last decade, this has disappeared. Please bring it back with a permit system.
DERMS POLICY ON CONDITIONAL REGISTERED VEHICLES. I am a active lobbyist for a provision of a form of recreational registration, such as provided in Tasmania. The policy of (a) not allowing individual recreation and (b) rarely providing written authorisation to conditionally registered vehicles as a club is a product of totally inadequate form of registration by TMR. By last count, a estimated 5 ministerial portfolios are traversed with this issue of operator licensing and registration of these machines. And a estimated Three Hundred Thousand exist nationwide. Hardly minority numbers. Appendix B refers to one of my consultations on this matter. So, I pose the hypothetical question. Will suitably accredited operators and recreationally registered machines be given better and less discriminatory access than currently provided? Please read our overview and proposals provided as attatchments above with serious consideration prior to providing a answer.
DERMS POLICY ON SHOOTING ON PUBLIC LANDS. The Game Council of Australia run and conduct 'R' license classes for licensed firearms holders for the use of hunting and feral animal control in certain NSW state Forests. Similarly, in Victoria, the DSE permit the same in specified regions. Surely the checks and measures that are used in those states would be applicable to the same problems in Qld? Without a doubt, shooting is far more discriminatory than baiting programs, which are being used by DERM in the far North of the state. The cost effectiveness and tourism opportunity of qualified hunters carrying out a valid recreation with the benefit of gaining some semblance of control of dangerous diseases such as Japanese encephalitis let alone the incredible degradation of the country by feral pigs has to be worthy of qualified study and consideration. This is far more important than a irrational fear of firearms. Once again, my own surveys support fee for service. And once again, it is occurring whether legal or not.
To briefly summarise, many policy changes have resulted in unsustainable pressures and activities. By declaring "some things" no longer legal, this has hosted a array of illegal and detrimental activities. Note poetry by a unknown author in Appendix C. As bizarre as it may sound, making many more activities approved will prevent much of the illegal activity. I bring your attention to the below from the draft discussion paper, and trust that we can find common ground to proceed.......



"The second section is divided into four
dimensions of QPWS business under which
12 goals are identified.
Conserving natural and cultural heritage

1. Building the protected area system.
2. Conserving natural integrity on
protected areas and forests.
3. Conserving our wildlife species.
4. Safeguarding cultural heritage
on protected areas.
5. Living in balance—sustainably
managing resources on land and sea.
Working with community partners
6. Caring for land and sea country
together—Indigenous partnerships.
7. Connecting people with nature.
8. Communities working together for
protected areas, forests and wildlife.Sustaining enjoyment of protected areas,
forests and wildlife
9. Promoting sustainable recreation on
land and sea.
10. Supporting authentic and sustainable
tourism experiences. Building a capable, learning organisation.
11. Valuing our skilled workforce.
12. Improving adaptive and effective managment.

Thank you for this opportunity.

Dino
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[gazman]

submission sent to derm.
whom it may concern

After reading the DERM Master Plan I would like to submit some comments and suggestions of my own and our club members.
Our club (South East ATV Trail Riders), is based in South East Queensland, and is a family centred club involved in ATV and Trail Bike riding and education.
We understand that there must be control and supervision of special, protected areas, forests and wildlife.
We also believe that there are plenty of areas that should be available to the public for healthy outdoor recreational use.
Locking up most of the Australian bush is not the balanced answer that anyone wants.
I am making an open invitation to those at DERM to come and have a ride day with our club at one of the legal ride parks around S.E. Qld. We will provide bikes, quads and rider training on the day, this will help to demonstrate how we enjoy the bush with our families in a responsible manner.
And maybe those at DERM might just enjoy it.

Most trail riders do not wish to damage or destroy any special or protected areas, in fact we are very disappointed in the damage done by people dumping rubbish and toxins in the areas we ride in.

We can look at other countries for examples of shared areas and how well they can be managed.

The USA has similar land area to Australia, but a much larger population 312 million (USA) to 22 million (Aust) and they manage to provide for all outdoor areas including trail riding (or OHV as they call it). Below is a copy of the mission statement from the 'Off Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation' home page.

"The Mission Statement for the Off-Highway Motor Vehicle Recreation (OHMVR) Division states it will "ensure that quality recreational opportunities remain available for future generations by providing for education, conservation, and enforcement efforts that balance OHV [Off-Highway Vehicle] recreation impact with programs that conserve and protect cultural and natural resources." California State Parks OHMVR Division (Division) plays an important role in protecting diverse natural and cultural resources throughout the State.



Providing and maintaining long-term, sustained OHV recreation opportunities are dependent upon good resource management practices and continued support of our park visitors. By taking a proactive and dynamic approach in the preservation and protection of our natural and cultural resources, the Division will remain at the forefront in resource management. Please help us be good stewards of the land by staying on trails and riding responsibly."

Is this an approach that DERM could adopt in the future?

I would like to thank the staff of DERM for this opportunity to communicate and allow us to have a voice.

We would appreciate some response to these comments as we would like to continue trail riding and enjoying the bush with our families.

Kind regards

Gary Phelan
Vice President
SEATV

[gazman]

I wanted to ask if our submissions had been read or just binned.
I looked up DERM and this has happened since the election .http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/
Did we waste our time or is someone new taking over the Master Plan?
I will try and ring to find out.
gazman

[gazman]

It seems the wheels turn slowly.
Yes, the deck chairs have been shuffled after the election and when they work out whos doing what now,they will inform us of the outcome of the "Master Plan".Could be a couple of months away..........
gazman