OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[scooby]

If Husky's girls are not 9 or over, under the new rules (Y 10) they must ride in a limited class and correct me if I'm wrong the Apex's are currently only allowed in the comp class
Under the old rules they could of ridden in OEM from the age of 7

[scooby]

WORCS (Mx) and GNCC (Cross Country/Enduro) operate under seperate sets of rules that supplement the AMA rules to which they are entitled to do. This is no diiferent here in Australia, each club is entitled to submit a set of supplemental rules to MA and it is up to MA to decide whether or not they are allowed. We already adjust for speedway, mx and enduro already. As for a National Event it is up to the organisers to decide and have their supp regs available well in advance. If the state running the event is currently running the new rules they are entitled to change the rules and submit their supp regs to MA and it is then up to MA whether or not they are accepted
Obviously the USA has more riders hence more classes but I think they are on the right track. Although personally I would change the age classes. There is no way I would race an 8yr old against a 15yr old
WORCS also doesn't allow shifter bikes to compete with a CVT bike
GNCC - 90cc Open 71-90cc Production Class. Shifter, Auto & CVT models eligible. Shifter models are restricted to this class
http://www.gnccracing.com/pages/2011-gncc-racing-amateur-rules-
http://www.worcsracing.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=85&Itemid=203#youth

[Huskygoat]

thats correct they are not old enough now for apex quad are modified standard.... so no riding for them....
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[OUTCAST]

yes scooby the shifter and cvt run separate now in the u.s but they all ran together till the numbers increased of the shifters and the same will happen here and everything will be in its right place if rules dont change to prevent that.I think that the current rules are not helping the sport but the way the new rules were introduced the season had already started I think the timing could have been alot better.

[scooby]

They still run together in the GNCC Series but only in the 90 Open class
I agree the timing of the rules could of been better

[scooby]

out of interest are the shifter bikes on the track at the same time as the other 90s? If they are the only shifter bike (in their class) does this mean they can race but just dont get awarded series points?

[OUTCAST]

there is no shifted class in aust so they run together as competition class and all scored together cvt and shifter as comp class . may seem unfair to cvt but until they have numbers of shifters eg 5 to constitute a class they as always in aust at national and state level run together

[triple"A"]

yep i'm in agreeance with you guys (scooby, outcast) on everything you've said in the last few posts. and i'm aware of the role that supp regs play. i'm not in total agreeance with the new rules, but i can see what the creators are trying to gat to.
the subject of cvt / shifter has been discussed and to my recollection, it was deemed a worthy consideration, once numbers justified the split. however the supp regs approved for the upcoming opening round here has the two configurations split.even though it is expected that number will be down on last year. i'm being bombarded with hypochrisy,

therefore it would seem that perhaps, i should get together with husky , somewhere about half way, say alice springs, and we could organise some non MA events so the kids can race

[bullet]

jnrracer14 wrote:

jnrracer14 wrote: Now can someone answer the following questions without diverting to other areas please. 1 why is a quad rider/racer 90cc not allowed to travel over 30 mile an hour but a 2 wheeler 65cc can????? NQRC HEADS made the rule change why god nows??? 2. how many of you have pulled your children out of racing because of these New rule changes???? HALF OF THE QUAD WORLD!!!! 3. all states one by 1 how much has the numbers dropped??? [b] lets be resonable here 70%[/b] 4. how many parents are beyond livid that you spent money on new or used bikes on the assumption that they would be able to use them on a track??? 95% 5. Like i read someone else say WHO CARES what bike ect tom (sausage) or Harry have, some kids are exceptional riders so why would you want to take that away from them is it to fix your own ego? Yes! 6. who is sick and tired of hearing this cheque book racing quotation? come on they are kids for Christ sake if tom can afford a more expensive bike and Harry can only afford a cheaper one honestly WHY DOES IT MATTER? Harry quite often beats tom... Isn't it about keeping kids in a socially interactive sport and keeping them off the play-station and off the streets. [b]We all are![/b] 7. who thinks that maybe the kids should have a say in t this , remember they are the ones who LOVE AND ENJOY the racing some of you parents teach your children that it is ok to bag another racer because they are exceptional, and also teach your children that it is ok to have no sportsmanship. I totally agree! 8. Why would anyone change the rules that were in place when the sport was finally growing stronger? [u]Mmmmm even i do not see the logic![/u] 9. Now lets see how many of you answer the questions laid out without becoming abusive or steering away form these questions.. Wont happen and looks like i had to answer for all parents and riders.[u][/u]

Hello jnrracer14,
Thanks for giving me a few days to respond like any reasonable person would.
I've been away racing, but now i'm back i'll do my best to answer your questions without diversion (as you have asked).

1. Quads are much heavier than 2 wheelers, and can generally stay upright and out of control with an inexperienced rider for much longer than 2 wheelers.
2. "Half of the Quad world" is a non-factual wild assumption and incorrect. Most states have run their first events to the old rules and had very low entrant numbers. Seniors are down across the country too. New junior rules have little to do with the after effects of a global recession, except maybe being a handy scape goat.
3. as per 2.
4. You don't really believe it's 95%.
5. I don't understand this question.
6. Totally agree on the intention, and the new rules ensure our less intidating beginner standard class stays that way.
7. You are talking about poor sportsmanship from parents here... the biggest problem.
8. Because the machines have changed dramatically and our sport needs to keep up with all changes.
9. Some very one sided questions in there but i have done my best to answer them.

And to answer one of your later posts. I don't make the rules... MA approve or disapprove of what ever (you) the members say, providing of course that it is inline with MA and their liability concerns.
MA wear a heap of risk and give us a framework that allows us to race.
If you have a positive suggestion on how Junior quads should run... write it down in detail, and they will consider it.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Huskygoat]

A joke found on another forum in Australia... lol

Q. How do you kill junior quad racing in Australia?

A. Put a Bullet in it.


Huskygoat
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[bullet]

Nice work Husky.
Keep the comments personal mate, you'll surely achieve a hell of a lot that way.

Good to see you at Kamfari on the weekend.
And you'd have to be happy with your pretty solid result too.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[JimmyO]

i do find it interesting that after his initial tirade and "facts" jnrracer14 is not coming back to show where he got them from

[OUTCAST]

well jimmy0 try question 8 by jnrracer 14 may help.

[JimmyO]

i think he already started that mate. and just pulling out 'facts' with no backing doesn't make it true. im just as interested to know how these changes have affected the sport but it seems a few people seem to take it as personal attacks on them that they have changed the rules

[Huskygoat]

JimmyO your in WA ... Last year 14 90cc quads were on the line ... u look at the entrant list .... 4 at the last state round can U comfirm this?

Not being neg but

Maybe it didnt need fixing ... I personally have 2 quads in my shed that cant race now.

Huskygoat
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[OUTCAST]

yes husky 14 is correct for 2010 the last state round had 6 in competitive class and not one entry for limited class

[bullet]

Interesting numbers that might suggest the 'old rules' killed the sport.
Did WA's first round run under the old rules?

I heard their first MX round last year had over 100 entrants and this year it had only 42 entrants.

Do you believe that some minor changes to Junior rules that really only effect the 8 year old age bracket detered nearly half of all the SENIOR enbtrants too.
What is your count on how many of last years 7 and 8 year olds are effected by the new rules? (probably not 58 of them).

Or do you think that maybe there was possibly another factor or 2?

Hopefully the new rules and, any good suggestions you are all making to MA now, will help improve entrant numbers for next years first round.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[JimmyO]

i cant comment on the numbers at the last state round in wa cause i wasnt there. however you need to make sure that you're comparing the same rounds. turnouts can be very different from one end of the season to the next.

[scooby]

Just my interpretation -
Bikes such as the typhoons and apex are now not allowed to race in limited as they were in OEM but have to enter the modified class. There are many 9-12 yr olds who previously raced in OEM who dont want to have to compete against a modified bike. ? another reason as to why numbers have dropped. As for drop in senior numbers, alot of seniors have kids who raced who now cant so why would they race and leave the kids at home?

Last edited by scooby on Wed May 04, 2011 7:22 pm; edited 1 time in total

[scooby]

Wouldn’t the best way to go, be to go back at look at the numbers of Jnr’s at events or even just take the Nationals from 07, 08, 09 and 2010 to see what the trend was under the old rules?
Did we have an increase in numbers during this time or a decrease? The last event mentioned by Outcast was run under the new rules it was WA’s round 2.

Dont get me wrong, I certainly think there needs to be changes to continue to get the sport to grow as it was
For example adapting the WORCS Rules to suit our numbers might be a good start

[OUTCAST]

round 1 of the state title was run under the new rules in wa but all of the sup regs were for old rules . the timming could have been better as i said earlier

[Mrs_Gaitar]

All results for the WA junior rounds and the 1st senior state round are on www.waquadmx.com
can see all our junior riders, how many what classes etc.

WA championship regs and sup regs were altered to reflect the new GCR's as advised by MA, prior to the first state round.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[jnrracer14]

bullet wrote:

jnrracer14 wrote: jnrracer14 wrote: Now can someone answer the following questions without diverting to other areas please. 1 why is a quad rider/racer 90cc not allowed to travel over 30 mile an hour but a 2 wheeler 65cc can????? NQRC HEADS made the rule change why god nows??? 2. how many of you have pulled your children out of racing because of these New rule changes???? HALF OF THE QUAD WORLD!!!! 3. all states one by 1 how much has the numbers dropped??? [b] lets be resonable here 70%[/b] 4. how many parents are beyond livid that you spent money on new or used bikes on the assumption that they would be able to use them on a track??? 95% 5. Like i read someone else say WHO CARES what bike ect tom (sausage) or Harry have, some kids are exceptional riders so why would you want to take that away from them is it to fix your own ego? Yes! 6. who is sick and tired of hearing this cheque book racing quotation? come on they are kids for Christ sake if tom can afford a more expensive bike and Harry can only afford a cheaper one honestly WHY DOES IT MATTER? Harry quite often beats tom... Isn't it about keeping kids in a socially interactive sport and keeping them off the play-station and off the streets. [b]We all are![/b] 7. who thinks that maybe the kids should have a say in t this , remember they are the ones who LOVE AND ENJOY the racing some of you parents teach your children that it is ok to bag another racer because they are exceptional, and also teach your children that it is ok to have no sportsmanship. I totally agree! 8. Why would anyone change the rules that were in place when the sport was finally growing stronger? [u]Mmmmm even i do not see the logic![/u] 9. Now lets see how many of you answer the questions laid out without becoming abusive or steering away form these questions.. Wont happen and looks like i had to answer for all parents and riders.[u][/u] Hello jnrracer14, Thanks for giving me a few days to respond like any reasonable person would. I've been away racing, but now i'm back i'll do my best to answer your questions without diversion (as you have asked). 1. Quads are much heavier than 2 wheelers, and can generally stay upright and out of control with an inexperienced rider for much longer than 2 wheelers. Tell me Bullit do 2 wheelers have a KILL SWITCH? NO do 2 wheelers have a higher accident percentage YES! Does a Quad fall over when it is not held up by a person NO ! Does a 2Wheeler shut off when it is on top of a person burning the crap out of them especiallyt when it is a young one who cannot pull a 2 wheeler off of themselves No! so really when it comes to weight you really dont have a case...2. "Half of the Quad world" is a non-factual wild assumption and incorrect. Most states have run their first events to the old rules and had very low entrant numbers. Seniors are down across the country too. New junior rules have little to do with the after effects of a global recession, except maybe being a handy scape goat. The new rules where changed on our first state round but did you here what stuff ups there were in regards to these changes? Let me tell you it was a total stuff up , the scruteneers DID not Comply with the rules and the wrong Kids where standing on the podium , yes it was rectified but the kids who really won did not get to share the cheer excitment of being on the podium.How upsetting for them but hey So someone said Thats Life ( I do not agree) it was down right WRONG.3. as per 2. 4. You don't really believe it's 95%.No but it has dropped at least 50 %5. I don't understand this question. Well i guess you will have to reread it , it is quite simple really.6. Totally agree on the intention, and the new rules ensure our less intidating beginner standard class stays that way. Now i agree but It is not the right time We do not have the Numbers that the USA does therefore Kids who ride The Bikes with Gears have no chance at all of winning any Race AS THERE IS NOT ENOUGH OF THEM!7. You are talking about poor sportsmanship from parents here... the biggest problem. Tottally agree i have seen what some parents do to kids that Have talent , how they go out of there way to destroy families and the children are the ones they hurt the most, see question 5...8. Because the machines have changed dramatically and our sport needs to keep up with all changes. Is this directed at Cobras and apex"s? I guess so. Change will allways happen but you have to weighout the pro's and cons.These bikes are probebly the 2 most safest Bikes around and they are oem and everything else has been tested on those bikes and it was shown at the nationals in Perth that the young kid Who raced a Cobra and was Protested against, His machine was cleared of all Protests against it and the cc's was well under the 90cc amount , i am sure it was 20cc under , and it was pulled apart in front of a lot of onlookers. I hear this kid has been racing for years that would make him a vet in the sport now we have seen this kid cop abuse and all sorts , he has been blacklisted by a huge amount of parents ect, I dont understand why parents and kids treat this kid this way and how his parents deal with it all other than the fact they must have a huge amount of patients cause i no I would have run for the hills Shame on you people this is one case of bullying parents and kids that is totally fact! and also are these bikes Actual race bikes or Social riding Bikes? I am sure there are a lot of Social Race bikes that DO require some changes to Keep them safe eg: Widening to keep them more stable?9. Some very one sided questions in there but i have done my best to answer them.One sided I dont believe so Is this because you said so or becuse you trully believe you Know everything?And to answer one of your later posts. I don't make the rules... MA approve or disapprove of what ever (you) the members say, providing of course that it is inline with MA and their liability concerns. MA wear a heap of risk and give us a framework that allows us to race. If you have a positive suggestion on how Junior quads should run... write it down in detail, and they will consider it.

[jnrracer14]

JimmyO wrote:

i do find it interesting that after his initial tirade and "facts" jnrracer14 is not coming back to show where he got them from

WHY WOULD I ANSWER ANYTHING YOU SAY JIMMO YOU HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH RACING ON A MA TRACK ! Let people who Race on a MA track do the answering as i have no time to respond to those who have no idea what this is all about , go jump on another dicussion page that you actually have insite to and stop waisting my time. And Just to let you know I do not have a problem with Trail riding i think both are good forms of riding. But like i said this is about RACING on MA tracks not social riding!

[Rotax46]

Jnrracer14, PM sent
_________________
Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

Last edited by Rotax46 on Thu May 05, 2011 10:50 am; edited 1 time in total