OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[PJSRZR]

Hi Guys,

Just a bit of early days notice about a week long competition for next year. For any team wanting to really test their driving, navigation and endurance skills and have a lot of laughs at the same time, check out the website below:

www.navrun.com.au/cliffhanger.htm

We should have class rules and CCDA equipment requirements finalised soon, but you should note this one in your diary, this will be something special out at Cobar.

Phil

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PJSRZR wrote:

Hi Guys, Just a bit of early days notice about a week long competition for next year. For any team wanting to really test their driving, navigation and endurance skills and have a lot of laughs at the same time, check out the website below: www.navrun.com.au/cliffhanger.htm We should have class rules and CCDA equipment requirements finalised soon, but you should note this one in your diary, this will be something special out at Cobar. Phil

G'day Phil, did see that come through and had a bit of a look.

They called the class Polaris though and then didnt define it. As you say CCDA is still under definition but there was no mention of that this class is for Polaris vehicles only or SXS's in general?.

Also I guess calls into question are the CCDA rules going to cater for more than just Polaris vehicles?.

Seen some footage of previous events of the Cliffhanger and they do look quite good.

Cheers

Gavin
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[PJSRZR]

Hi Gavin,

The class name would be changed if and when other brands show any interest. If owners of other makes do show some interest, we can certainly cater for them. So far there is not alot, but this event is all about team work, power in most stages is somewhat irrelevant. Driver and Navi skill, especially over a 3 or 4 hour stage in a 20,000acre paddock will be put to the test. A Rhino could well and truely hold its own against a RZR in most of the stages.

I am told the organiser's have already received a Polaris entry. As far as they are concerned, they only need 5 entries for a class. We will have 2 RZRs ourselves so this is definately going to happen. Craig and I will be there for sure.

We will hopefully have finalised CCDA regs well before July next year giving people heaps of time to prepare. As for regs on other makes?, its a bit hard to formulate them when they don't turn up/show interest to compete, but I am still open to suggestions.

One thing is for certain, no matter what the model, side doors and netting will be essential for safety sake and I would also say convenience (those nets are a pain in the a**e)

Phil

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

+1 on the nets as well!
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[jackass/450]

Hello Gentlemen,

I have decided not to make any further mods to the rhino as I have convinced myself that a can am or a polaris would be a better option to a moded rhino. No use spending money on something you know you are going to take a bath on.
So that is it from me for now until some can ams start arriving in Australia and I can compare one of these in the flesh to the current RZRs - mind you there are some decent deals on these at the moment.

Cheers
Chris

[PJSRZR]

Hi Chris,

Good luck with your shopping. Speaking as a Polaris dealer now, one thing to consider when you look at purchasing is what you really want to do with your machine. If you want to get into a bit of competition driving like Cliffhanger, so far, it really has only been Polaris who have been prepared to put some money and effort into helping something get off the ground. Granted they have a vested interest in it, but I hope it gives you a bit of an insite into the enthusiasim and forward thinking of the head office crew. (not the slightest bit of interest from the Japanese ranks)

The Can-am looks the goods and I am sure will be well made, but it has yet to to tested, only time will tell here. One reason we are happy to allow the Can-am to compete in the same class as the RZR is when you consider the comparable power to weight ratios, they look very evenly matched. So it comes back to horses for courses. But my initial discussions with Can-am also reveal that they also would only be intersted in supporting events if the class regs insisited on keeping the units pretty well bog standard as we are with the RZRs. (Just to keep in mind).

Phil

[gothev8]

Removed.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PJSRZR wrote:

Hi Chris, Good luck with your shopping. Speaking as a Polaris dealer now, one thing to consider when you look at purchasing is what you really want to do with your machine. If you want to get into a bit of competition driving like Cliffhanger, so far, it really has only been Polaris who have been prepared to put some money and effort into helping something get off the ground. Granted they have a vested interest in it, but I hope it gives you a bit of an insite into the enthusiasim and forward thinking of the head office crew. (not the slightest bit of interest from the Japanese ranks) The Can-am looks the goods and I am sure will be well made, but it has yet to to tested, only time will tell here. One reason we are happy to allow the Can-am to compete in the same class as the RZR is when you consider the comparable power to weight ratios, they look very evenly matched. So it comes back to horses for courses. But my initial discussions with Can-am also reveal that they also would only be intersted in supporting events if the class regs insisited on keeping the units pretty well bog standard as we are with the RZRs. (Just to keep in mind). Phil

G'day Phil

My own discussions with Can Am went a little different in that Bog stock is a requirement and modified is inevitable and everyone races anything next year????

CAMS comment so far following the work Polaris did with FIA is, not as bog stock.

MA's comment so far is "whats a SXS?"

Thats heavily paraphrasing everyone.

More will come from everyone. My view is that modification is inevitable and even neccessary in some terms to make machines safely raceable in any event. read: std RZR.

I havent ridden a Std Rhino or Teryx to know but I wouldnt be in favor of limiting any type of racing to single or even dual marque participation that you seem to be indicating.

If people own it race it thats what we started with. As someone interested in forming an Australian SXS user group I'd definately be against that. So I hope that is not a path CCDA are going down.

I hope we get some more people interested in the events next year when things become sorted at various places like CCDA Vic starting racing again and a few more locals from NSW and QLD turn out

Hopefully there will be plenty of news on racing that will allow Chris to make the decision you indicated Phil and that he could make one based on what he wanted to do not just the one thing that was available.

Cheers
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

gothev8 wrote:

Removed.

Fastest finger in the West!!
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[PJSRZR]

I am sure eventually CAMS or MA may introduce their own SXS class. BUT, I am NOT associated with ethier, I am working with the CCDA, event organisers that are currently prepared to offer us something and the couple of manufacturers that show some interest right now.

And while I have input into the events along these lines and LISTEN to the current crop of competitors with their SXS's and what they want, I will continue to work along the lines of establishing a class with these guidlelines. That does not stop anyone else working on alternative classes/regs thru CAMS or MA or anyone else for that matter, but for Cliffhanger and the Xtreme series based in Nth NSW and QLD and VIC next year it will be run along these CCDA std class guidelines.

This is not the US, and we don't have anywhere near the numbers of people wanting to spend $40,000 plus on a SXS heavily modifying them. If there was, we would already have massive fields of SXS's lined up now, so I don't think making the rules more open to "cheque book" racing is going to swell the ranks of competitors.

I have always said I am very open to feedback and input, and so far, keeping it close to "out of the box" is what the competitors who have "had a go" want.

I would suggest then, those that want to spend big dollars and race like the highly modified units in the US, work with CAMS or MA to establish their own class and events. I am sure it will eventually happen, but I am not convinced their are alot of SXS owners out there wanting to go down this path.

Phil

[Roycroft]

keep it up phil, i am with you, and i know polaris are in the same boat.

met with Jacob young this morning, he is excited.
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[jackass/450]

Hey Greg - that must have been good for them to remove it hahaha.

Hey Phil, Thanks for your comments and yes I applaud yourselves and polaris for the work that has been put in todate and acknowledge that you are out there getting dirty and that I have not competed in a event thus far, but in the end I didn't want to spend any more coin on the rhino to get it to a standard to even compete in a CCDA event.
I have since bought some polarises - 5 x ranger 500 and we have a number problems with them. Granted nothing sever but enough to be a pain.

Anyway - I am going over to watch the King of the Hammers next year so ............... if the dollar is good you will never know what toys I will come home with.

[gothev8]

jackass/450 wrote:

Hey Greg - that must have been good for them to remove it hahaha. Hey Phil, Thanks for your comments and yes I applaud yourselves and polaris for the work that has been put in todate and acknowledge that you are out there getting dirty and that I have not competed in a event thus far, but in the end I didn't want to spend any more coin on the rhino to get it to a standard to even compete in a CCDA event. I have since bought some polarises - 5 x ranger 500 and we have a number problems with them. Granted nothing sever but enough to be a pain. Anyway - I am going over to watch the King of the Hammers next year so ............... if the dollar is good you will never know what toys I will come home with.

Chris,

I actually removed the post myself as I didnt think it was appropriate to post my comments on Phil's thread as he is doing good things for the sport. I have spoken to Phil via PM to explain why. Give me a call on the mobile if you want.

I plan to attend/compete in the Cliffhanger event next year as long as nothing comes up on the work front.
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2009 Polaris RZR 170

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PJSRZR wrote:

I am sure eventually CAMS or MA may introduce their own SXS class. BUT, I am NOT associated with ethier, I am working with the CCDA, event organisers that are currently prepared to offer us something and the couple of manufacturers that show some interest right now. And while I have input into the events along these lines and LISTEN to the current crop of competitors with their SXS's and what they want, I will continue to work along the lines of establishing a class with these guidlelines. That does not stop anyone else working on alternative classes/regs thru CAMS or MA or anyone else for that matter, but for Cliffhanger and the Xtreme series based in Nth NSW and QLD and VIC next year it will be run along these CCDA std class guidelines. This is not the US, and we don't have anywhere near the numbers of people wanting to spend $40,000 plus on a SXS heavily modifying them. If there was, we would already have massive fields of SXS's lined up now, so I don't think making the rules more open to "cheque book" racing is going to swell the ranks of competitors. I have always said I am very open to feedback and input, and so far, keeping it close to "out of the box" is what the competitors who have "had a go" want. I would suggest then, those that want to spend big dollars and race like the highly modified units in the US, work with CAMS or MA to establish their own class and events. I am sure it will eventually happen, but I am not convinced their are alot of SXS owners out there wanting to go down this path. Phil

Phil, whats with the EXCLAMTIONS, quotes of $40,000 , highly modified machines and LISTENING? I dunno where this is coming from but I'll try and answer it.

I have diligently promoted SXS eventing and CCDA events here on this website and elsewhere and will/would continue to do so on the basis that CCDA have a set of rules that allows each machine to be made safe to compete in and it is not made an exclusive event/ series competition. Its not up to what manufacturers want to be involved, at the end of the day its up to what people want to race. We talked at the start of the season this year and I havent changed my position since then about classification.

As much as people would like to think something has been achieved for the sport sitting where I am very little has been achieved. So I'll keep working on it.

I am not affiliated with CAMS MA or CCDA except as a member. I am here for the good of the sport and getting the sport underway. EOS.

If you wish to say if people wanted to do $40k open class eventing they'd be lining up by now, Logically then it would be far more likely if people wanted to run CCDA events they would have had massive numbers of people have turned up to events by now because they have actually had some.

So as I said Phil I'm not sure what your POINT is meant to be.
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[bullet]

Without talking to either Phil or SxS, i think Phil makes a most important point.
If cheque book racing is encouraged (or allowed to skyrocket), the future of the sport may see very low numbers of participants.
Cost goes up = Less growth.

Speaking to Polaris and Can-Am about UTV competition...
Yes they are both excited and they definitely want to see the sport most achievable for the average family guy, and not see standard (affordable) machines disadvantaged.

Both recognise that 'one horse racing' will not be the answer and that all brands need to be invited.
Both believe that aiming the sport at 'as close to standard' machines as possible will help ensure best opportunity for sport growth.

None of the above will be easy to do.

I think the greatest concern with racing is the possibility of high speed roll over.
At this starting point, there is probably an opportunity to design the racing to keep speeds down.
Rather than having to spend thousands of dollars on each buggy, for something that may or may not make a difference in that high speed accident.

This concept is not new or limiting.
To pick an example, all MX racing works this way.
Average speed for any track must not exceed 55kmh and peak top speeds must be under 100kmh.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Of course cheque book racing is not in the interests of many participants and so classes should be developed for stock machines, but its also true that everyone has their own idea about what mods they want to make to their machine, name the standard machine anywhere that someone is enthusiastic enough to race? So both classes of people and machines should be catered for.

When people are looking for sponsors or the series is looking for marquee sponsors then a class that lacks the ability to have an exciting race maybe an issue and something we should be aware of (I'm not saying that speed limited racing would be unexciting but merely something we have to be aware of). I'm sure we want to attract sponsors and people from outside the usual rank and file of ATV's into the sport so as to grow the entire pool of people.

I'm not sure limiting speeds is the answer when a set of 2 inch spacers and flatter UTV designed tyres may be the answer to adding 3 or so inches each side of the vehicle. Also limiting changes to machines may be contrary to the safety of the vehicle while racing even at the 100kmh mark.

I'm not sure what was said bullett that resulted in this statement especially the bit about not seeing standard machines disadvantaged.

Quote:

Yes they are both excited and they definitely want to see the sport most achievable for the average family guy, and not see standard (affordable) machines disadvantaged.

We must look to the example of current racing series and specifications aroud the world to check the validity of speeds and safety precautions such as wheelbase and width. Certain machines are not suitable for racing at 100kmh in stock trim and in fact are not even suitable to ride around casually at 100kmh in stock trim. So measures must be investigated and undertaken.

As I have said all along I believe some people will want to race at the closest to std as possible and that should be possible and that some people will want to race amended machines and that should be possible.

Certainly the people who already have machines like the RZR'S here in the country may well have undertaken any number of changes to their machines, like as most people like to tinker with their machine and then in good faith want to take part in racing and so long as they meet the safety guidelines should we not have a classification available for them? People like GottheV8, Jackass and even Phil do not have stock machines anymore.

All I am saying is that along wqith a standard class there should be a modified class because the machines already exist which meet/breach the stock std criteria.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Also on the point of cheque book racing it smacks a little of double standards to be told on one hand we want to avoid cheque book racing and then have the major brands playing the capacity war?.

1.1.11? 1000CC model?

Best we just have our stadard and modified classes so people can do what THEY want.
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[ROOTS RACING]

and what mods are alowed ,
can i have a stock rhino with a turbo,
id like to come to the event but i have a long travel rhino with a turbo,

is this able to come out for a bit of fun , or not, thanks
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[PJSRZR]

Gavin,

I don't think anyone necessarily disagrees with the modified and non modified class arguement. However there is no point spending heaps of volunteer time and effort, writing class rules and regs for 2 or 3 competitors. I am sure in time a modified class will exist, however, right now, for 2011, the SXS owners that have expressed interest to us in racing of some form or another, want to race in a stock class.

I am not against a modified class, I just can't see the point in spending what little time I have, writing up rules and specs for something that has, at this point in time, no demand. Please feel free to submit your suggested rules and regs for a modified class and I will ensure they will be submitted to event organisers and the CCDA for future racing when the demand exists.

All along, we new one of the challenges of creating a SXS class, would be the issue of each brand trying to outdo each other in the power stakes. This will never change and will be forever ongoing. All we can do is cross these bridges each year as they occur. You will need to consider this ongoing issue as well with a modified class.

Other than my RZR being Turbo, all of the other members you mentioned above have modified their units in small ways, but as far as I can tell, still meet the proposed stock class regs we are working on.

Phil

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

I dont disagree with that Phil in the sense of the CCDA firm and I guess I just slipped into all types of racing type gig so my apologies for leading this post astray.

I hope the event is well supported and be very interested to see what SXS is released 1.1.11 and how that performs in Navrun.
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[Roycroft]

had this email from Jacob from polaris the other day.

it is looking real promising for a few events this year.

Thumb Pump 300 run by Mick at 47 Industries- Easter Weekend at Pinnaroo SA. , Sup Regs are outlined and entries are open
http://www.thumbpump.com/site/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=303&Itemid=157

Xtreme winch challenge- 3 rounds proposed - This is run by Dave Metcalf from Xtreme 4X4 sport and is fairly easy to have your RZR comply to http://xtreme4x4sport.com.au/

Round 1: 18th - 20th March – The springs via Warrick QLD
Round 2: 24-26th June- Rockhampton QLD
Round 3: September Bendemeer Tamworth area NSW

Cliff Hanger 5-9th of July in Western NSW http://www.navrun.com.au/
There is a RZR class and Polaris is a sponsor- this is run under CCDA (cross country drivers association) and is a Navigational Event. We are still working through compliance but it looks like it will be relatively straight forward

Also Khanacross series which Sutto’s have been running their RZR in- http://www.motorkhana.com/index.htm

NSW KHANACROSS SERIES
ROUND DATE LOCATION SURFACE CLUB CONTACT NUMBER
1 *Saturday 19th February Hampton Dirt Hills District Car Club Peter Batt 0400828911
2 Sunday 13th March Ringwood Dirt MG Newcastle David Atkins 0403091139
3 Sunday 22nd May Ringwood Dirt MG Newcastle David Atkins 0403091139
4 Sunday 26th June Awaba Dirt Westlakes Auto Club Darren Green 0434983035
5 Sunday 7th August Awaba Dirt Westlakes Auto Club Darren Green 0434983035
6 Sunday 18th September Awaba Dirt Westlakes Auto Club Darren Green 0434983035
7 Sunday 23rd October Ansell Park Dirt Thornleigh Car Club Andrew Crowley 0421334426
8 *Saturday 10th December

Australasian Safari- WA 23rd – 30th September – Discussions soon to take place but looks promising.

There are also discussion taking place regarding FINKE June 11 – 13 and there are a few working on CAMS compliance, but still work in progress.
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[mosko111]

Awesome work Phil!! is great to see this class pushing forward!

I will be definately checking them out at Metcalfes round in rocky as we will be competing in the fourby class,

There is also still interest from a few parties up this way just watching and waiting to see how all this pans out before they jump on the band wagon

And Chris....... Just buy two new Rzr's on your way home!! (ones for me... i heard Mipec are keen to sponsor a young gun!!)
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[gothev8]

Anyone thinking of competing in this one, I am?

Round 1: 18th - 20th March – The springs via Warrick QLD
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2012 Polaris RZR XP Turbo
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[PJSRZR]

We will be there but unlikely with our RZRs as we are in the process of updating both our units and we won't have replacements until late April at this stage which is a real pity.

Phil

[gothev8]

PJSRZR wrote:

We will be there but unlikely with our RZRs as we are in the process of updating both our units and we won't have replacements until late April at this stage which is a real pity. Phil

Are you updating to the XP's?
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