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mxr450
4fiddy Racer
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 233
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 Posted: Sat Jan 29, 2011 10:35 pm Post subject: e 85 |
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| just wanted to know if any one is running e85 in there bikes any benefits or down sides thinking about running my yfz450r on it as it available at the local service station |
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wa5
Big Bore, Stroked & Bling +
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 446
Location: Port Stephens
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 1:17 am Post subject: |
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| Whilst the alcohol/ water content in E85 may work in forced induction aplications, I dont think it works so well in hi comp N/A applications... stick with premium unleaded. |
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Clarkie
The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1138
Location: Mildura VIC
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| Posted: Sun Jan 30, 2011 3:13 pm Post subject: |
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Ethanol leavs a gummy residue behind and breaks down rubber fuel lines in Motorbikes/Quads, there was a write up on it in Trailzone Magazine ( 2 wheelers)
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dangerman4
Roostin Away
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Morphett Vale
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 8:41 pm Post subject: |
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| v8 supercars arnt FI |
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wa5
Big Bore, Stroked & Bling +
Joined: 06 Nov 2007
Posts: 446
Location: Port Stephens
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| Posted: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, V8 supertaxis are EFI, but they do have all fluids drained after each event, the fuel doesnt sit in the tank for weeks.. to go "off"..
They have a money no object maintainance program. |
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The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 1518
Location: Middleton SA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:23 am Post subject: |
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It's funny how adding alcohol to fuel used to be all the rage, and cool kids did it all the time.
Now it's added by a big company at the pump, and all of a sudden it's sh1t.
Fuel hoses and every other sorrounding technology has come along way since the crusty little bit of cracked rubber hanging of your 1975 Briggs and Straton lawnmower too.
Has anyone 'ever' seen a fuel hose or O-ring on a modern quad damaged by any fuel?
I've seen a few overtightened hose clamps and pinched O-rings, but unless someone has been stuffing with things, i have never seen a failure in normal running conditions due to such changes of fuel.
Why would a fuel company risk a spot on 'A Current Affair' and replacing every fuel hose in Australia? Answer, they wouldn't.
They would sell us the cheapest crap they can get away with though. That's for sure.
But yeah, if it's good enough for a V8 Supercar goes OK... chances are you quad will be fine too 
That's probably 3 cents 
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18. |
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SX Quad
4fiddy Racer
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 203
Location: Kalgoorlie
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:07 am Post subject: e 85 |
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Check the Yamaha web site for info as this was raised a few years ago with dropping to 91 Octane and it wasnt recommended then so not sure if there has been any update on the e 85 issue. Might pay to check the other manufacturers as well to see what their recommendation is.
Or just by Premium to stay clean.
Maybe one of the suppliers can be contacted for a formal note that can be posted on here for everyone?
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660R mine
300 Grizzly Hers
90R Little T |
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fossil800R
The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 1166
Location: Barkly, Victoria
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:18 am Post subject: Re: e 85 |
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| SX Quad wrote: | Check the Yamaha web site for info as this was raised a few years ago with dropping to 91 Octane and it wasnt recommended then so not sure if there has been any update on the e 85 issue. Might pay to check the other manufacturers as well to see what their recommendation is.
Or just by Premium to stay clean.
Maybe one of the suppliers can be contacted for a formal note that can be posted on here for everyone? |
Shoot a PM to truant on the forum. He is the account manager for Reliance Petroleum (BP) here in the Pilbara.
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I'm not suffering from insanity, I'm enjoying it!!! |
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SX Quad
4fiddy Racer
Joined: 25 Apr 2008
Posts: 203
Location: Kalgoorlie
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:23 am Post subject: STRAIGHT OF THE YAMAHA WEBSITE FAQ's |
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Are Yamaha Motorcycles, ATV's and SSV's designed to operate on Ethanol Blended Fuels.
No, All current and previous models are NOT designed for Ethanol Blended Fuels at any percentage. (ie. E5, 5% and E10, 10%). If Ethanol Blended Fuels are used you may experience driveability and running problems, fuel component deterioration and damage due to moisture.
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660R mine
300 Grizzly Hers
90R Little T |
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The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 1518
Location: Middleton SA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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Best point from SX Quad... why wouldn't you just run premium anyway.
Run the best you can is probably the best advice.
Any manufacturer will stick to what is in their manual regardless.
It might be interesting to ask them...
Surely someone has tried it, what 'actually' happened?
Who died?
Ask the maker of E85, i bet they'll say they've tried it.
But yeah, why bother, just run premium if you can.
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Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18. |
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Linc
Roostin Away
Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 999
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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No manufacturer has made their ATV's E85 compliant. Both rubber and aluminium is effected by the alcohol. Race cars with alloy blocks and heads are "pickled" in between races, this means they are flushed and filled with Petrol when not in use.
It is also worth noting that with E85 you will get worse fuel economy. |
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dangerman4
Roostin Away
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
Posts: 854
Location: Morphett Vale
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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in a stock engine its a waste of time to run e85 as it will suffer compared to premium.
however if u have a specifically built high comp engine with added timing and extra fuel capabilities, then u will find a fairly decent gain from it. |
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Clarkie
The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 26 Jan 2009
Posts: 1138
Location: Mildura VIC
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Linc wrote: |
It is also worth noting that with E85 you will get worse fuel economy. |
V8 Supercars get 10 laps less per tank at Clipsal on E85
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triple"A"
Roostin Away
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 941
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dangerman4 wrote: | in a stock engine its a waste of time to run e85 as it will suffer compared to premium.
however if u have a specifically built high comp engine with added timing and extra fuel capabilities, then u will find a fairly decent gain from it. |
so would you suggest i run e85 in my next acquisition, that comes in at 14.9:1 and currently uses 112 Ron????? |
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The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 1518
Location: Middleton SA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 01, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dunno about that AAA,
I think the ignition map should be slightly different too.
More initial advance and less total advance.
Better get on Google
Maybe just chuck an extra base gasket in and run Premium
What have you got at 14.9 ???
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Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18. |
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bodes
50cc nipper
Joined: 16 Jan 2008
Posts: 21
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 1:26 am Post subject: |
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| bullet wrote: |
What have you got at 14.9 ??? |
fully sic hand grenade ????????????? |
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Quad
The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 2773
Location: UP FRONT
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 3:56 am Post subject: |
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Just use 98, thats the max for racing yes whots 112 some one on the track with.
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Im not the sharpest tool in the shed |
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The Two Stroke Smoker
Roostin Away
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 541
Location: mid pack
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:13 pm Post subject: NO WAY |
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I work in the petrol industry and have done for the last 8 years.I WOULD NOT use e85 if you payed me.
thats my say
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YFZ450
And the longest hours I've had in my life
Were the ones I went through to know I was right
So I'm safe but I'm a little outside
I'm gonna laugh when I'm buried alive |
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The Two Stroke Smoker
Roostin Away
Joined: 03 Jul 2007
Posts: 541
Location: mid pack
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Clarkie wrote: | | Linc wrote: |
It is also worth noting that with E85 you will get worse fuel economy. |
V8 Supercars get 10 laps less per tank at Clipsal on E85 |
and a massive rebuild also!
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YFZ450
And the longest hours I've had in my life
Were the ones I went through to know I was right
So I'm safe but I'm a little outside
I'm gonna laugh when I'm buried alive |
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Mart 300r
Roostin Away
Joined: 02 Jun 2008
Posts: 944
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 8:05 pm Post subject: Re: NO WAY |
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| COTTO wrote: | I work in the petrol industry and have done for the last 8 years.I WOULD NOT use e85 if you payed me.
thats my say |
I also work in the petrol industry.I see what this crap does to petrol tankers forever changin gaskets valves seals etc.Especially kills the overfill protection sensors.And can get quite costly.
But i wont argue that it does make certain engines run harder/cooler if set up coreectly.Im sure haggle will chime in here,With his dad as a road motocycle racer they all run the stuff.An seem to get very good results especially in the aircooled 2bangers.
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PeteW
Moderator
Joined: 09 Feb 2006
Posts: 1877
Location: Doreen, Vic
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| Posted: Wed Feb 02, 2011 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I'd steer away from it for general use, especially if you don't drain your fuel after every ride (not real easy on some EFI quads) but then again most fuels will leave a residue if they are left to sit in tanks and carbs.
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www.dirtcomp.com.au |
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triple"A"
Roostin Away
Joined: 04 Aug 2006
Posts: 941
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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| bullet wrote: | Dunno about that AAA,
I think the ignition map should be slightly different too.
More initial advance and less total advance.
Better get on Google
Maybe just chuck an extra base gasket in and run Premium
What have you got at 14.9 ??? |
just got back from the docs bullet, he gave me some drugs to help get my tongue outta my cheek, lol  |
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HaggLE
Roostin Away
Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 511
Location: Newcastle
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 9:21 pm Post subject: |
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Ok heres the deal.
The rate of consumption of fuel is higher, but the cost is less... I'd call it even.
You need approx. 1.3 times the fuel flow for E85, this means that you WILL need to rejet a carby and its unlikely that your stock efi system will run E85, you would need a power commander or similar programmed to run E85.
We have been using E85 in small capacity road racing bikes for 2 years. This includes ancient air cooled 2 strokes (YZ100), water cooled 2 strokes (CR80), air cooled 2 valve 4 strokes (like a 200x trike) and modern 4 valve 4 strokes (CRF150R). In every case there was an increase in horsepower by 6%-10% and far better longevity in the air cooled engines. The E85 particularly favours high compression.
In this time, there have been no problems with degraded fuel line, worn crank seals etc. Sometimes the needle and seat will gum up and stick shut but normal fuel will do that anyway eventually, its just faster happen with E85.
Have not seen any evidence of gummy residue other than what I mentioned about the carby earlier.
Aluminium is not affected by E85, the fuel tank on the race bike is aluminium and the tank is still there even with fuel sitting in it for months. I have seen it eat fibreglass resin tho
I honestly this it is the fuel of the future, its 85% made from plants and burns cleaner than unleaded. |
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mxr450
4fiddy Racer
Joined: 23 Feb 2010
Posts: 233
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 10:19 pm Post subject: e85 |
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i have been doing some research myself you do have to up your fuel to air ratio so re maping of my power comander is needed with e85 you do not get any carbon build up so your spark plugs stay clean
it has a higher octain rating than premium unleaded 98 so it is perfect for high comp motors |
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The Day Starts With OZATV !
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 1518
Location: Middleton SA
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| Posted: Thu Feb 03, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject: |
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In fact you will only get all of the power benefits if you do run a higher comp engine.
Ideally your ignition mapping will be variable as well as your fuel ratio.
Even though it will run cooler and cleaner, if you go that way, it pays to know, not play... best get it set up on a dyno.
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