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[[BANNED]]

Ok been reading into this a fair bit lately especially when I read there have been issues with Glasshouse / Beerwah etc.

My brother has a mate at school who is a Ranger in Beerwah/Glasshouse. It turns out whilst on duty one day, he approached some guy on his trailbike who was riding where he wasn't supposed to be. Long story short, he got punched out by this yobbo. I suspect it is this type of stupid behaviour that has got the Police red hot about people on bikes in the Forestry behind Beerwah / Glasshouse.

I know a local business owner who has been threatened by the local cops that if he is caught riding there, they will throw the book at him. This is sad because he has his R license and his bike is registered, so technically - he hasn't done anything wrong? The cops can charge him if it makes them feel better, but this will not stand up before a judge. Rules are rules and I think the local five O are making "profanity removed" up to suit themselves.

Further to this, I went to the Police station last week and enquired about riding in the forestry legally with all documentation in hand. Namely, the Conditional Registration paperwork which outlines that riding in Forestry is in fact, legal, providing you have permission.

Long story short - the person at the station said there is no license class to ride a Quad and that if they caught me, would throw the book at me and they raved on about confiscating my bike. She ranted and raved for ages saying that Quads do not fall under either C class or R class licenses, and if I was caught, I'd lose my license for 3 months automatically.

Too bad it turns out - she was very wrong! After seeking advice from the Department of Transport, I now have a piece of paper that outlines anything with 2 or 3 wheels is defined as a motorbike, and thus, need an RE or R class license in order to ride and be compliant with the rules regarding riding in the Forestry etc.

Here is the good bit - Quad bikes or (4 wheeled motorbikes) actually fall under the C Class license (car license).

So effectively:

- If you have a quad that is conditionally registered;
- You hold a current C Class license;
- You follow ALL "Location Limitations" (L03, L06A, L07) not just some of them;
- Have permission to ride (in Peachester there is a sign that says if the bike is registered you can ride - I think that in itself is an invitation and thus that is the permission in itself);

From what I can see/read, this is all you need to ride.

Be aware though - you will cop heat from the local Police. If I get charged, I will just have to fight it in front of a Judge who actually knows the law.

Lesson here is - don't believe everything the cops say.
_________________
WTB Quad

[Doug Evans]

Thanks guys that clears the question I had will be getting my rzr s some rego soon thanks
Doug

[Kymanic]

Hi everyone interested in this issue.
We start our ride at Donnybrook (pine forest), and usually ride up to the twin Mobil servo's and back again.
We are ALL rec registered and ALL have open/unrestricted motorcycle licences and we ALL wear all of the protective gear, been doing this ride for years.
We usually see the ranger and sometimes he stops for a chat, ( 1st time he stopped we thought we were in for it, so we quickly pointed out the rego plates and labels, but he said he wasn't worried about it, he just wanted to know how the Rappy's went lol), and other times he just gives us a wave and a nod.
All good UNTIL last Saturday..................
It wasn't the Ranger, it was two blokes in a Toyota Landcruiser ute with Environmental Protection Agency on the doors.
He told us to get out now because you can't ride in there on those ''things'' (quads).
So we pointed it out that we were ALL rec reg'd and licenced, and he said that it is, quote, "NULL and VOID" because we had no permission to ride there. There are forestry signs saying Registered bikes only.
So it's OK from Dept of Transport (who gladly take my money), OK from the Ranger (Im guessing if you were a being a fool, that would be different, fair enough too)
BUT a BIG NO NO from the E.P.A.
The reason I posted this, is because I just got my renewal in the mail and am deciding whether to pay or not .......
_________________
Aspire to Inspire

[Dino]

PM sent.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[[BANNED]]

I'm interested in the issue posted above.

I have my renewal coming up also and am considering if I should renew it or not?

What is the deal with the EPA?

Dino - can you also PM me?

Cheers.
_________________
WTB Quad

[shan660]

just reading some of the interesting scenarios.
this was brought up in discussion out our SE-ATV meeting today.
interested to know where we stand legally on this. or do we just ride the moto bike parks, and do away with the rego.
how come the EPA can over rule the law?

[Dino]

Shannon, this thread has been made a sticky, so users of this forum can make more informed decisions about conditional rego in Qld.

There has been a lot of half truths and out of context info pushed around.
The various links for DOT, EPA and the like are there. I recommend individuals get aware of the facts, and make their own mind up.

To give you some idea of the law enforcements point of view........
If someone in SEAT would like to talk to traffic branch of QPS ( the Qld Police Service), to get the latest on fines/penalties/anti-hoon legislation for your groups info, please go right ahead. Remember they are mainly concerned with the traffic acts, so prepare a short list of relevant questions.

That will give you some idea of the legalities..................

The short version of things is:
(1) that if you ride anywhere other than private property ( like ride parks ), you and the off-road community as a whole, are better off with a rego.
(2) the QPS generally only act on complaints. If people don't complain......
(3) the EPA is a genii (JEANIE?) let out of a bottle, and now that it's out, no one knows how to put it away. They are very powerful and answer to no one.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[shan660]

mate thanks very much for the reply, i think some further reading and research into this matter is needed by us, so i will take a look at those links you have made available to read.
the only other problem, there is no exemption or license for kids.
i feel you have already done your homework as far as the qld police are concerned, so i feel nothing more can be gained there.
i think it pretty much comes down to where we want to ride.
and if state forests are where we decide to ride, well we need rec reg.
what penalties can the EPA enforce?

[Dino]

No worries Shannon.
I agree about the kids, but the traffc act is the traffic act.
It looks like, legally, the kids are stuck with ride parks and other private property.
As to what the EPA can enforce, a EPA stormtrooper at Mt Mee showed me a F4 sized "on-the-spot" fine/infringement notice kind of docket book he carries around. It was a tick the box type, with very small writing.
And that was only QUOTE "the tip of the iceberg!" UNQUOTE.
This was just one of the many books they carry around............
(No wonder they need V8 'cruisers. )
And fully registered vehicles is all the EPA want to know about at the moment. And that is very provisional.
When the revised legislation comes through, things will be better for us with conditional rego, as far as clarity and definition goes anyway.
Meanwhile, I still see plenty of people about in the forests..........
maybe legislation and enforcement don't always meet up?
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[macca4802]

Lots of useful info here. You fellas have obviously done a lot of research on this subject relating to riding quads in the forests and Nat. Parks.

I've seen guys riding quads on both the main roads and in the parks up in the Cape between the Daintree (including the CREB track) and the tip and always wondered if it was legal.

I've recently been considering offloading my 2 wheeler and doing my future trips on a quad... but I'll only do it if it's legal.

Can you legally ride on the roads up north with a Conditional Licence and a current Drivers Licence? If so, do you need a written permit from Police, EPA etc?

Any previous experiences with this process would be appreciated.

Cheers Macca

[Dino]

Hi Macca, I've neen speaking to Tim Forsyth of Far North Qld Quad Riders.
They've got some good stuff happenning up there.
I'll P.M you his phone number, so you can get the current local info.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Predatory]

I was doing a job at Logan City Council water Works last week and i was having a look at a Side by Side that they use. This vehicle was certainly not road worthy as it had no lights or indicators etc but the condition codes on the sticker were:
LO3
LO6A
LO7
LO8
SL1
SP20

What do they mean and would any of them apply to us that we dont know of yet?
_________________
Its not if you win or lose but how you enjoyed the ride!

[dingo tim]

Hi All,
Just a quick intro,
I was a happy old bloke riding my quad until I became the president of FNQuadriders inc. Well nearly a year later I'm now a cranky old bloke who is extremely determined to blast some good governance sence into Qld.gov.trans.
Our club is making some big inroads, success is still some way off, but it is in site.
We have several Qld.gov dept helping as is MA's national quad committeee. To my supprise there is quite a lot happening behind the seans for ATV rego across the country.
All my spair time is being taken up with the rego campain so Dino has come on board to keep you guys informed of what we are up to, so please direct questions to me via Dino. I'm keeping him in our loop. This will leave me free to keep up my badgering of Qld.gov.
We all need to work together on this. Some more Qld Incorporated ATV clubs lobying Qld.gov would be of great help.
We are able to help with how to start a club in Qld, again talk to Dino and I will send him all relevant info.
I have read through all of this post and just want to advise that in very recent weeks we have found out that the Communities dept (sport and rec) have been given an agenda, GET THE SPORTING CLUBS INTO THE FORREST OFF COUCHES AND GETTING HEALTHY. So while this policy is IN we need to act fast and hard!
Thanks,
Dingo Tim.
_________________
Dingo Tim
FNQuadriders Inc 2010 president
Come on people, get involved and help us sort out Qld.gov.trans messy Rego bog hole!
www.fnquadriders.com

[Dino]

Predatory wrote:

What do they mean and would any of them apply to us that we dont know of yet?

This link will explain the codes you mentioned....
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/22359a71-1d7b-4973-bdfb-a63fefe8f0e4/pdf_guideline_for_conditionally_registered_vehicles_form_number_17.pdf
Short answer is "Not a real lot of use...."
Which is why a push is on for a new code for quads that will open up a lot more........
http://www.ozatv.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=15508

What we are about is getting the law into the 21st century!
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

Most people who currently have conditional rego would have recieved , or will recieve a jointly issued letter in the mail from TMR ( formally the Dept of Transport. ) and DERM. ( who are responsible for Forestry and Nat Parks in Qld. )

The TMR side is nothing new, other than they now feel obliged to officially inform us of what the cond. rego means.

But, for a varity of reasons, DERM have started to recently started to enforce their several year old policy regarding indvidual recreational riding within their realm of responsibility. ( Forests and National Parks. )
Simply stated, this now means no go officially.
A fairly complicated system is still in place for organised groups however.
Areas where we have been previously ignored or tolerated, could well no longer considered quad friendly.

To be blunt, the situation is now a farce.

Not really because the rules have been changed, because they have not. The fact that DERM now wish to enforce their policy will help bring the joint issues of both access and a valid registration to a head.

And rather than moan about it here, I would suggest sending your complaints, in your own words and reasoning to DERM on the below link;

http://www.derm.qld.gov.au/contactus/handlingcomplaints.html

Should your complaint use words such as discrimination or a fair go to use our quads in trail bike accepted areas will be heard, just as a hundred or so vocal horse-riders were given concessions because they were heard.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[scottydig]

Hey Dino,

Maybe we are looking at this situation the wrong way!!!!
Instead of trying to change the rules , we play by the rules !!!
To ride they say you must have a registered vehicle.
How would it be to be out in the forestry riding on say a road registered raptor 700 and being pulled over by the law ;only to stick it up them because you are registered.
Quads are road registered in many countries around the world.
Enduro two wheelers for many years could be optioned with a rego kit and the WR models of today are essentially a motocross bike set up to go on the road.
Maybe we should be lobbying the quad manufacturers rather than the beauracrats to produce a road / trail style quad that can be registered for the road.
To have the first road registered quad in this country would be a feather in the cap of a manufacturer.
Just my thoughts..........

thanks scotty.
_________________
06 700 raptor 50th anniversary

[The Jackal]

Ive sent my complaint to Dino's DERM link and I urge to rest of you to do the same.

CF
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Predatory]

I find it hard to understand why a system like the "B Class rego" that is in place in WA cannot be implemented here or throughout Australia. The B-class rego was a condition that was required for Quads to enter the Australian Safari. A spec sheet was made available and as far as I recall from Brett from Legend Quads, one could take your quad to certain venues and it would have to pass a test before getting classified as B-Class. This rego opens up a few avenues that previously posed problematic for quads.
Clubs that wanted to include quads in Enduro events now could do so,as the new rego would allow quads the same rights to crossing roads etc as the trail bikes.
Areas like state forests etc could now legally allow quads access and the issues revolving around public liability/insurance etc would be covered.

Trying to get manufactures to change there factories to accomodate the likes of Australia I think would be a tall order.
I ask the question......why are sport/recreational quads allowed to be imported into the country knowing full well that most states do not cater for recreational riding.
I suppose it is a loaded question when I think that there are so many high powered vehicles and yet the speed limit is so low and the only joy one can get from your V8 is burning a bit of rubber on a dark stretch of road where hopefully no-one sees you!!!!
_________________
Its not if you win or lose but how you enjoyed the ride!

[Predatory]

Did anyone else get a call from Ian at Derm? I posted a complaint and got a phone call today from Ian??? who said he knew nothing about any letter getting sent to anyone. After a brief chat he said that he knew exactly who to redirect my complaint to and that person would be in touch very soon. So I am holding my breath!!!!
_________________
Its not if you win or lose but how you enjoyed the ride!

[The Jackal]

Don't hold it tooo long... remember he or she will be from the government! I didn't list my phone as a contact but I won't be holding my breath waiting for a reply.
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Dino]

Our pollies like to refer to QLD as the smart state.
Compared to Tasmania, they are dunces!

This is their conditional rego scheme......
http://www.transport.tas.gov.au/registration_information_tas/conditional_registration

And this is what all the various land managers and groups like councils and off road users nutted out down there.
http://www.forestrytas.com.au/visiting/off-road-recreational-vehicles

A bit of light reading, but obviously it can and has been done.
For all the same reasons as we are putting forward, they got there respective acts together and came up with a workable solution.

Somewhat less discriminatory and ambigous than our POS/pass-the-buck set-up.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

Below are the amendments to the rego that we are proposing......


"Queensland conditional registration amendment proposal for Recreation Trail (RT) riding for;
1. RT 01 - Licensed adult
2. RT 02 - Limited Junior license.
Legislation that enables recreational use of a Quad motorcycle (ATV)is currently available in Queensland by the way of Conditional Registration. Conditions are, codes LO3 (Location Limited to a designated area), LO6 A (designated route) and LO7 (loading and unloading tasks). FNQuadriders Inc are testing this system to ensure it is both workable and functional. Initial findings are that red tape and the resistance from Police are making the current system very cumbersome to use. We sympathize with the Police over the permit issue; they are being asked to take directly assume responsibility for permitted activities which should not be their role. The Police ensure we (all QLD drivers) conduct ourselves under legislation and should not be put in a position of writing stop gap vagaries where no clear law exists.
Amendment to legislation is required for proper support. (As the Conditional Registration system is written, it appears to originally have been designed for work vehicles used in controlled environments i.e. road works). I have had conversations with Lindsay Granger (General Manager of MQ) who is part of the Queensland Transport Motorcycle Safety Advisory Group, Shane Knuth, my state member of Queensland Parliament and the local Police Traffic branch. The Police advise that they are focused on enforcing traffic regulations that the Transport department, with advice from MP’s and advisory groups, guide’s them to via legislation.

We feel strongly that the Queensland Transport department needs to update the Conditional registration system to better include vehicles such as quads (ATV) and Side x Side vehicles (UTV) when used for private recreational purposes.
Two additional (selectable) codes that suit All Terrain Vehicle recreational use are suggested below.

We understand that there are many pressures in maintaining and conserving State forests and almost inversely that the office of sport and recreation is keen to positively promote healthy outdoor adventure sport and activities. National Parks can see big advantages in improved recreational access as this will give them much needed greater control of illegal, unauthorized or unwanted motorized users in our state forests.
Ideally improved recreational access would also include increased operator education and a code of conduct element. Operators should be encouraged to use their machines in an ecologically considerate manner and be warned of the consequences of not respecting their machines safe operating limits. MQ (Motorcycling Queensland) maintain an existing structure for safe and responsible recreational vehicle use and training that all MQ members receive on an application basis. This is updatable on an annual basis when MQ licenses are renewed. Under a national system, MQ has a very rigorous junior licensing/participation system for controlling junior events. Affiliated clubs have free input and access to these services.
ATV’s are cheaper than 4x4 cars and much easier for the average family to afford. Improvements in recreational ATV use also offers great flow on benefits to the states regional areas and related recreational adventure tourism industries. Simply because these areas off the open natural experience that has became very hard to locate in the more popular South East corner. Simply put it gives city folk another great reason to come holiday with their country cousins?

Significant benefits in community health and wellbeing are realized by getting outdoors and exercising. ATV’s and UTV’s have a very big part to play in this area as they are very easy to operate safely. Operators very quickly gain a level of competency that returns an active, educational, enjoyable and safe experience. ATV use in Australia is following a global popularity trend that is here to say. Illegal use, unsupervised use, and operators acting in isolation that do not follow sensible procedure, all increase the likelihood of negative consequence, socially, economically and environmentally. Positive steps in more appropriate guiding legislation are the only way to improve controls to achieve the most positive outcomes.

Please think about this and let’s get consensus from across the state’s quad fraternity.
New additional codes:
RT 01 – Travel only on public dirt roads and trails, and any forestry road or road within a National Park provided National Park visitor guidelines are followed. It has a more rigorous licensing system that removes the police permit requirement. Ie an ATV/UTV car license endorsement (same as a boat).
RT 02 – Junior recreational operators must be under the direct supervision of a legal guardian/parent and may only use public roads that have been closed off to public access and day time only operation. Minimum PPE requirement for juniors are; ATV - Safe footwear, Eye protection, Gloves, Protective clothing and an Australian Standards approved helmet (or equivalent standard). In addition UTV also require a securely fitting seat belt.

NB: The most expensive ATV at present in this country is a two seater; it comes standard with air adjustable suspension, power steering, full lighting, special off road differentials and a front mount winch. (It is available in European (EU) format with full ADR style lighting). This machine retails for less than $20,000 and can easily be transported with a family sedan and trailer. By comparison a midsize 4x4 Ute retails for around $35,000 and would require another $15,000 worth of enhancements to bring it up to comparable level of Off Road performance. The environmental foot print difference of a 4x4 ute used in the same environment is magnitudes greater and the operators are obviously not benefiting from the higher level of outdoor exercise or getting so close to nature as they do when enjoying an ATV."
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[ddingo]

We can only hope this goes a head.
_________________
LIFE SHORT PLAY HARD!!!!!!!!!!!!

Suzuki 450 LTR
Ktm 505
Thanks to
East Coast Power Sport
Piston Energy Drinks
Queensland Quad Riders Association

[The Jackal]

Good work as always Dino... thank you for posting.
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Predatory]

I am keen to do the ADBA events this year and I saw on the website that they require conditional rego before you can ride. Yesterday I went onto the Queensland Transport website and downloaded all the forms and info I needed. I duly filled in all the forms and right at the end the last question was" Do you want to register a Quad or Trail Bike?" If so............
then you must provide proof in writing that you have the permission of the land owner where you plan to ride!!!!!!!!!!!
SO I thought, well it is an organised event, by a recognised club, sanctioned by motorsport Australia surely if I pitch up with my entry form, which contains all the above information, this will be enough!
Wrong,wrong and wrong again!!!!!!!!!
The event organiser must now send me written proof that he has the permissions of all the stake holders/landowners concerned before I might take another step towards an illussive Quad Rego. Did I mention that I paid $153 for CTP first before presenting to the transport office? So now if these permissions are not forthcoming, lets say because Ray Buchanan could say" its all just too hard mate", what have I bothered spending $153 on CTP for?????
Dino and Gazman and Scottydig please feel free to comment!!
_________________
Its not if you win or lose but how you enjoyed the ride!