OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Huskygoat]

when Do you buy your Fuel for race day?

How do you know if its good or bad ?


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[yogie]

I run just plain ol unleaded, as the kwakka bloke in Geelong tells me to do, but I'll buy it on the day, regardless.
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[just doin it]

run premium, sometimes take it with me or get it on the way[race day] must vary a fair bit as rude just does'nt seem to run up to speed if the fuel is not of high quality. run 98 in my chainsaws and they run fast , clean and cool, a high performance engine as are modern day 4 stroke quads, certainly clean fresh fuel seems the way to go.
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[jumbo danny]

hey there husky just turn left @ the black pole 4000m turn right up the hill 20 paces left between the two out crops you know where don't tell anyone just start digging the tanks in the ground the yanks left it there in the WW2 IT RACE FUEL MATE !!
thats what we run our pro sharks on and thay haul ass
ps; look out for the bore line that feeds SA we need all the water we can get ha ha!!
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[Huskygoat]

secrets secrets




is there any device you can buy to test it for octane ?
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[froggy]

Huskygoat wrote:

secrets secrets is there any device you can buy to test it for octane ?

a straw?

[Huskygoat]

me white fella ah.
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[Huskygoat]

me white fella ah.
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[bullet]

Research Octane Number testing (RON) is a complicated laboritory test.
They use a huge machine like an adjustable compression diesel cylinder.
Basically they just measure where the fuel sample goes 'pop'.
The best test you can do is run a basic cheap high compresion engine on yor fuel and see what it fees like.
You'll hear the crackle of detonation quite clearly.
Something like an old 192 holden motor in a young lads pride and joy would be best.
I used to have a crappy old rally Corolla which was ideal.
It always 'pinged' on 91 -93 unleaded, came good at about 96ish, ran perect on freash 98.
The owner of a vehicle like this will pick variations in local fuel batches.
And his basic old engne won't suffer from detonation like modern 4 stroke race engine will

Octane increased fuels don't always make more power.
Most do, but negligably, and some octane imrovers can even slightly lower power output.
Adatives like nitro methane etc are good for power as well as fuel stability.
Higher grade fuels are just all round better because they are taken of higher in the refinement process.
Fuels like Av Gas etc are the go... cleaner, more power, and lots of avantages.

Keep in mind to that higher octane fuels go off quicker too.
They are more 'hydroscopic' (suck water out of the atmosphere).
So a good 98 will drop a few points much quicker than a sh!tty old 91 fuel.
This would be a big problem for Av Gas in Darwin.
Freasher fuel would be more of an issue up there.


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[Linc]

Huskygoat wrote:

when Do you buy your Fuel for race day? How do you know if its good or bad ?

You want fresh 98oct. Buy as late as possible from the bussiest petrol station in the area. We prefer BP or Mobil and avoid Shell.

Av gas and fuel additives are banned in MA events.

[Huskygoat]

Thanks for the info . friends of mine up here store there fuel in the fridge (not beer) and showed me 2 dump cans of fuel bought on the same day I think it would be ultimate . One was light yellow and the other was browner. so within 4 days the browner one wasn't worth running.

So its better to store fuel in steel 20l oil type drums?
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[Noy Q75]

we can get 100 RON here in perth in race fuel and in the M.A. book it says you can use BUT at the moment its $7.30 ltr so its not cheap !! and i have spoke to a few people here and they said it dosnt make enouth diffrecne on the track to worry about so i will stick to 98 from the pump and i fill up bike and 10ltr drum that day of the race. what i dont use goes into the kids bikes .
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[froggy]

Huskygoat wrote:

Thanks for the info . friends of mine up here store there fuel in the fridge (not beer) and showed me 2 dump cans of fuel bought on the same day I think it would be ultimate . One was light yellow and the other was browner. so within 4 days the browner one wasn't worth running. So its better to store fuel in steel 20l oil type drums?

me would think alot of moisture in a fridge

[bullet]

I think sealing it is the best option.
Like Husky said, Steel drums to the lid with caps sealed.

F1 teams were freezing fuel to -35 pre-racing but that was to increase it's density for more power, not a quality thing.

I have used 20 year old AV Gas from 44gal drums in Antarctica and it was fine.
Not because of the low temp, but because it was sealed and stored on the 'driest' continent on earth.

Like Linc said, 98 from the highest turnover Service Stations is the best.
And I think BP and Mobil are the best too.
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[noodles]

froggy wrote:

Huskygoat wrote: Thanks for the info . friends of mine up here store there fuel in the fridge (not beer) and showed me 2 dump cans of fuel bought on the same day I think it would be ultimate . One was light yellow and the other was browner. so within 4 days the browner one wasn't worth running. So its better to store fuel in steel 20l oil type drums? me would think alot of moisture in a fridge

On the contrary Mr frog,
Fridges actually work as a mild dehumidifier as any moisture in the chest cools and forms condensation which is then usually directed to a tray surrounding the compressor which through the heat generated then evaporates again but outside the fridge.
Fridges can actually be used to dry things
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[47industries]

Did you just make that up or did you read it somewhere.....or both!
Mick@47
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[Roycroft]

the old fuel debate whats best or not. if you buy 98 oct from a petrol station it will work.

not claiming to now exactly what i am talking about, but i do own a a couple of petrol stations and buying from a busy one would be best.
we sell 4000L of 98oct at our busiest petrol station per week and we are classed as a busy one. that compared to around 100,000L per week average of other ULP products. for most petrol stations the minimum Qty of wholesale fuel you can buy of any grade is 8000L so our turnover is atleast 1 tanks per 2 week cycle. i doubt keeping it in the fridge or in a sealed container is going benifit in anyway as before you buy it already has sat in at the refinary for a week, been in a tanker for a day, and sat underground at your local servo in a big plastick container sloshing around with dirt and water for atleast 2-4 weeks.

also for an example the ACCC tests all servos at random atleast 1 or 2 times per annum for the quality of fuel and measurements dispensed at the bowser, we recently got tested and it was a slow couple of weeks at the bowser for 98oct, it was underground in our tanks for approx 3-4 weeks, the 98 octane got tested for octane rating and after this it was spot on to the manfactures specifications, in other words it was 98octane.

so the myth of fuel losing its octane over a period of time is bullshit.
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[bullet]

I would not say "bullsh!t" but usually grossly exagerated.
Any fuel octane rating will drop as it is expoed to contaminants.
Moisture and oxidation are the biggest ones, and yes, over time.

Bulk storage is the best, or any storage where the volume is high and he surface area of fuel exosed to the air is lesser.

For example, if you keep your bike in a closed up concrete shed for 6 months with a full tank of fuel (full to the cap)...
when you start it up it will probably be fine.

But if you leave it outside through 6 months of sun and weather in the Darwin wet season with a quarter of a tank of fuel (lots of air space above it, and lots of expansion and contraction over the days and nights in humid air)...
I'll bet you'll have fuel problems.

But generally, 'fresh' as in bought yesterday or 2 weeks go... no difference.
Good topic though, lots of people have different opinions.

My favourite one is how a lot of people say if you run your tank low all the time, all the crap out the bottom of the tank goes through your engine.
Now that one is crap!
What level do they think the fuel flows from when the tank is full anyway?
It always runs out the bottom... how can it not??? ha ha

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[Ktm540xc]

Higher octane fuels require higher compression for a complete burn. Running a race fuel or avgas in your standard compression bike would be a waste of time and money. Your power will go backwards ! Higher comp and high octane and your on a winner . 10:1 92 octane or so . up to 12.5:1 98 octane no problems. Over that comp and your sacrificing timing to run on 98. Checking your plug colour for temp will soon tell you if your in the ball park with your fuel.
Tolulene is any easy way to increase your octane but access and cost can be an issue for some. We have run up to 25% . We have worked out by trial and error that approx 10% tolulene gives 4 ron numbers..
Rubber workers or belt splicers use this stuff sparingly.

If storing in a container as in 44 gal drum store with the lid down as it prevents water entering the cap as it magically appears to be able too.

[Roycroft]

remember we aren't allowed to run any additives or any fuel that is not readily available at a service station besides if MA approve it.
this is in any quad event

that limits us bigtime to the amount of compression we can run.

i know of heaps of people that run illegal fuel or additives at races, for what gain i don't know besides if they get caught they will get banned from the sport.
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[PeteW]

I never store fuel for racing for more than a couple of days at most, usually any leftovers just go straight in the car (or 2 stroke straight into the whipper snipper jerry).

I agree on the high turn over and generally Mobil, BP and Caltex are the go for good 98 RON.
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[bullet]

I've never seen a higher octane fuel make less power in any engine.
Usualy not more power, but never less.
Higher octane fuels generally have all round better fuel qualitys.
So they cold start better, always burn more completely, less flat spots etc.
A higher octane rating, simply means the fuel is more stable and they are taken off higher in the refinement process to achieve this.
It will burn more consistantly in more extreme conditions...
which could be very hot and high compression, or very cold and low compression.
This stability at the the hot end, usually means the burn is actually slower.
Which is generally why you would run a few degrees more top end timing advance to ignite th fuel earlier.
Higher octane means less explosive but more controlled burn = more power.
They also burn more completely over a slightly wider mixture range.
Which translates to better throttle response and less flat spots etc.

Higher octane (quality) fuels only deliver postives, compared to the opposite which we can all probably relate to... like crapy old lawn mower fuel.

Generally, High octane = always better.
Essential in very high comp engines, but probably not worth the investment in low compression engines.
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[feralkid]

I tried running premium in my heap of crap 250 once. Think it needed to high compression for it and was running really bad and coughing and spluttering. Was alright when i was running it flat out for a while but a soon as you would back off it would die a bit. Too expensive anyway lol.
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[phrozin]

bloody dial up

Last edited by phrozin on Thu Apr 09, 2009 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

[phrozin]

With out a long rant, Bullet is on the money Octane rating of a engine fuel is the detonation resistance number no more or less, ron rating does not relate to the energy content of the fuel seems some may be a tad mixed up 100 octain just stops high compression engines going in to detonation which is a bad thing

want more bang stick in on methanol or drop some nito in it but i think you will find no racing org let you run additives