OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Dino]

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201207/s3545575.htm

As a few of you know, I actually have been having a go at the govt in Qld about a fair go for quad riders. This has resulted in a few contacts within the industry and around the country. A lot of us want the same thing.

I'll be passing this info onto the brains trust. What I am asking is help from Australia wide, that the quad clubs, the SxS and UTV guys and individuals who can put a sensible few words together, get onto this and bang home submissions from actual users.

It's not often we get an opportunity to make submissions, and it is really worthwhile. If we do nothing, we'll get that back in spades.

As more info and contact details comes to light, I'll share it here.
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Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[yogie]

okay bloke who exactly are you targeting and what do you want to say, I'm handy with a letter ?
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2005 KFX700
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[Dino]

yogie wrote:

okay bloke who exactly are you targeting and what do you want to say, I'm handy with a letter ?

A key point of that article>>>>
"Mr Shorten says the QuadWatch webpage will provide information and links on how to reduce quad bike incidents, quad bike safety research, work health and safety information and contact details for state and territory regulatory bodies all on the one site.

Safe Work Australia will release an issues paper before the end of August seeking submissions on potential improvements to quad bike safety, including crush protection devices. That will be followed by a one-day forum to discuss submissions on quad bike safety improvement coming out of the issues paper."

Here is a few bones to chew on.......
Some of the most difficult aspects of dealing with the Governments about quad issues include:
Federal and States are divided with different agendas and attitudes, so they can easily do nothing unless they have to.
We, as recreational users are lumped in with workplace and safety(WH&S), so when they have to deal with a quad/SxS issue it is only under the guise of of that. You need accreditation to use one in the workplace, but a simple car license is all that's needed to operate one legally on public property.A huge hinderance to a functional form of registration that.
However, deaths in recreation are happily used to provide a agenda for WH&S, while those same deaths are used as an excuse not allow a functional form of registration.*The actual deaths, in context to usage are totally out of proportion.
(Quads and SxS are being used safely by most of us.)
The boffins have no idea actually how many of us are out there.....

Ideally, I believe quads and side by sides should be treated the same as tinnies and jet-skis. We should have specific endorsements on our licenses to use same in suitable areas with suitable rego. Those endorsements should cover our responsiblities, what we can and can't do, etc.

The situation is exactly the same as when recreational marine licensing was forced to come into being. Media outcry, deaths and tragedy lead to meetings and committees and actual decisions.
No, it didn't eliminate all the incidents,( nothing will.) but it created a better and clearer playing field and universal standards.

And the ROPS issue, I really believe that these tools will force them on us.
"Some road safety researchers are calling for compulsory rollover bars on the bikes. Mr Shorten hasn't ruled this out."

Who to target?
Our state and federal representatives who will be mis-representing us would be a start.
This would include local councils, MP's, WH&S and Transport Departments( ), State controllers of forestry/crown land. Certainly Bill Shorten.

That'll be a just few things to start them thinking about......
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

The official Ministerial release;

http://ministers.deewr.gov.au/shorten/government-works-farming-organisations-and-community-groups-establish-quadwatch

The "Quadwatch website";

http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/SWA/industryinformation/agricultureforestryandfishing/quad-watch/pages/quad-watch.aspx
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[HoleshotQR#24]

Have you seen this:

http://www.efarming.com.au/News/efarmingnews/5201/get-kids-off-quads-farmsafe.html

Tragic that another child has been killed, but calling for an outright ban on children under 16 from riding quads is extreme. The journalist's selective use of statistics really paints a one-sided argument that quads are death machines.
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Proud Member of QuadridersSA
www.dualroost.com.au

[priesty]

Hopefully the big 4 will file submissions, as they have all the data that the regulators need to see.
If they want to keep pedalling thier products in Oz then they need to step up, be heard & get involved, because after quads it will be side by sides & eventually two wheelers, litigation doesn't discriminate on the basis of how many wheels you have.
_________________
The term "Foolproof" seriously underestimates the ingenuity of Fools.


08 700xx

[Dino]

priesty wrote:

Hopefully the big 4 will file submissions, as they have all the data that the regulators need to see. If they want to keep pedalling thier products in Oz then they need to step up, be heard & get involved, because after quads it will be side by sides & eventually two wheelers, litigation doesn't discriminate on the basis of how many wheels you have.

I know that the FCAI will make submissions. And they represent most of our larger importers.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Mrs_Gaitar]

Lets hope the quad commission through MA also handle this
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www.waquadmx.com

[bullet]

I have been working this stuff with Dino for a long time, and the Fedral move has been just waiting for another incident make a political issue of it.
MA are talking to the FCIA about it, but at the end of day when it goes political and the media get hold of it, the tax paying voters have the most clout.
Ideally every recreational rider will submit their piece.

As well as informing MA, I'll be making a submission as a Recreational and Farm Quad user.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Dino]

I've been on the phone about this a bit, and some key points have come up. We are fairly sure the our submissions will be very important, and that it is from the Federal Govt, that much of our state's "initiatives" come from. We recently numbed a ceratin Qld Govt. organsiation with submissions which they were not expecting. As a result of the numbers of submissions, a "change in policy direction" occurred.
KEY POINTS
Despite being acted upon by work place health and safety, many of these incidents were of a recreational nature, including children using adult sized machines on farms during holidays.
Nearly 22, 500 quads were sold in Australia last year, which is on top of the approx 128, 000 sold since records began in 2003. So, as much as we mourn the those killed and hurt, in context to overall use, are we quad users more dangerous than bushwalking or fishing?
In spite of the substantial "safe use" information already available, in forums, clubs, MA regs and the manufacturers own hand books, most users are self taught. Whilst the provision of the Govts "Quadsafe" web site is a further guideline in the same way, that is hardly a proven method of training or standards.
A positive responsibility/attitude is needed to operate/drive/allowed to be use anything, not just quad bikes.
The profile of quad/UTV use needs addressing. The failure of the government, past and present, to address these issues is as a result of a quite piecemeal response to questions raised over the last decade and beyond. They have very little comprehension of what sort of people use quads to do a large variety of things, let alone our numbers.

Would you like to be told you need to have "Roll bar" by some academic?
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[bullet]

Dino wrote:

Would you like to be told you need to have "Roll bar" by some academic?

Not on my race quad thanks
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Roycroft]

Il put a rops on my street quad if we could get rego.
But in a crash it aint going to do much.
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2012 sponsors, Working on it.

[dan1el101]

Roycroft wrote:

Il put a rops on my street quad if we could get rego. But in a crash it aint going to do much.

makes it a little tempting to move to england..

[Dino]

A poll is running.....
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/opinion/index.html
Comments invited.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Barney]

Even the thought of you putting a rops on your quad Roycroft makes me question , what the hell are you thinking , even if registration was possible on the road , it is not the need of a rops unit but quite simply education and safety items , man i cant even beleive you said that even as a joke ,, cos there is always some idiot out there to misread and misconstrue any comment , just look at the weekly times and there misinformed idea's.
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2012 Can am Outlander Xt 1000cc
Can Am Full set of Armour ,Grip and thumb warmer
Fox Podium Shocks and springs front and back
GME Tx 4600 UHF with Helmet Mic
Hema Gps

Last edited by Barney on Wed Jul 18, 2012 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Barney]

I am so passionate about the non fitment of rollover protection devices, i am with you Dino , so many people make misinformed statements about so many issues regarding quads, please if we all were to have our say lets do it in a letter to the relevant authority ,, and maybe the major manafacturers should be getting of there ass and doing something about this issue once and for all.

I am sure they dont want to be fitting rops units to quads, so maybe they can come on here and organise a meeting with users and riders and clubs so to speak.
_________________
2012 Can am Outlander Xt 1000cc
Can Am Full set of Armour ,Grip and thumb warmer
Fox Podium Shocks and springs front and back
GME Tx 4600 UHF with Helmet Mic
Hema Gps

[Dino]

A couple of things about this entire thing.

I've had dealings with Bill Shorten previously, a long time ago.
He's a wiley character, and I'm quite certain that anything not to do with workplace health and safety, by his own definition, he'll ignore.
But he can't ignore the facts.

One fact are that many of these deaths were not work related, even if they occurred on the "grey area" of a family farm.
Take out the incidents which are not work related, determine if appropiate PPE and training/care and that changes the context of whether a ACD is of any particular value.

Another fact. The ACD's retail for about $583 delivered including GST. They are a one type fits most sort of product. I would like to know if any readers of this thread have one and would like to offer their opinion.
The ACD manufacturer is far from broke, very patient and has the ears of certain academics who have the ears of the dept, over which Minister Shorten is the speaker for. ( if you didn't know, many pollies actually know bugger all and listen to "advisors".) The web site below:
http://www.quadbar.com.au/contact.html

Also noted is that Mr Shorten has stated that the level of training has been inadequate for "20 or 30 years" while announcing the Quadsafe website, which is more of the same. This "plan" has been in the works for a while.

One more fact, records of quad sales began in 2003. Since then until the end of 2011, over 150 thousand quads have been sold. Those figures are at the small end of estimates by the way. But based on informed reports by some of the bigger importers, about 1 in 5 or 20% sold are for primarily recreational use, officially. 20% is a figure too large to be ignored, especially when, in relation to the deaths, it may well be more.
In any case, the volume of sales in that time span would hint that "Compulsory" will replace words like mandatory or discretionary in the act.

Remember when we were taught to drive?
And , to me, putting on my helmet to go riding is as natural as wearing a seat belt in a car, ute or truck. ( That, and watching where I'm going. )
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Barney]

Attention to all quad riders if we dont act on this push by various members of parliement we will all be fitting these things to our quads,, i also call on all the manfactureres to get the ball rolling on this agenda by Bill Shorten and his misinformed members , and either start to present facts about the accidents relatiing to deaths on quad bikes .The NFF is now getting in on the band wagon supporting the government,, lets all stand our ground and say no to rollover protection on quads.

The following is an extract from a NFF statement

Release 18 July 2012
MR 70/12
Greater action needed to prevent on-farm quad accidents
The National Farmers’ Federation (NFF) is calling for greater action on four wheel motorbike safety
during this year’s National Farm Safety Week, to address the ever-increasing number of fatalities
from quad bike accidents on Australian farms.
NFF President Jock Laurie said the time had come for real action on quad bike safety, with the NFF
calling for a focus on solutions like roll-over protection or crush protection devices.
“Quad bikes are an important piece of farm machinery, but they can be dangerous. They are the
leading cause of on-farm vehicle-related deaths in Australia, and the main cause of fatal injuries in
children aged 5-14 on farms,� Mr Laurie said.
“Sadly, too many lives are lost in preventable farm accidents - just last week we saw another young
life tragically cut short due to an on-farm quad bike accident, bringing the total number of people
killed by quad bikes to 10 this year alone.
“The safety of our farming families and farm workers is of upmost concern, which is why the NFF
and our members are now calling for a focus on practical solutions to help address quad safety
concerns,� Mr Laurie said.
“In the past, we had hoped the number of quad bike accidents could be greatly reduced by farmers
adhering to some simple rules, like not overloading quads, ensuring they’re used for the intended
purposes only, and not allowing children under 16 to operate them – combined with relevant training,
safe work practices and wearing suitable protective clothing, including helmets.
“While these are all very important measures for farmers to take on board, the continued number of
quad bike accidents and fatalities show that greater action is needed.
“The Government has recognised this need; just last week it convened a meeting of government,
industry, unions, community groups and farming organisations, including the NFF, to improve quad
bike safety. Minister Shorten announced on Friday a new initiative, QuadWatch, to help provide
information and strengthen community networks around quad bike safety issues.
“The NFF supports this initiative, but we also believe more needs to be done to ensure the safety of
our farming families and farm workers, which is why we’re calling for a focus on solutions like rollover
protection or crush protection devices.
“Research is in the pipeline on crush protection devices – and if this research shows that they decrease
fatalities and injuries, then we will very strongly support them,� Mr Laurie said.
National Farm Safety Week, an initiative of FarmSafe Australia and its members, including the NFF,
runs until this Friday 20 July. National Farm Safety Week aims to raise awareness of farm safety
issues and help reduce the risk of injury and illness. For more information, visit www.farmsafe.org.au.
Ends.
Media Contact: Ruth Redfern on 02 6269 5666, 0408 448 250 or rredfern@nff.org.au
National Farmers’ Federation Australian farmers. Australia’s future.
_________________
2012 Can am Outlander Xt 1000cc
Can Am Full set of Armour ,Grip and thumb warmer
Fox Podium Shocks and springs front and back
GME Tx 4600 UHF with Helmet Mic
Hema Gps

[Dino]

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/news/content/201207/s3551945.htm
The NSW Govt. has thrown a million $ at studies relating to quad bike safety.
I hope this will be truly independant and that our manufacturers will provide test mules for the stability testing.
The University of Southern Qld did sponsored testing on specific model bikes for the Quadbar. I would suggest that the results are hardly conclusive and bring prospective quadbar purchasers attention to the quad bars rating of a <300kg fitted in a very prescribed manner.
Edit: And I hope they realise that 12 and 14" wheels provide for tyres with significantly different characteristics.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/qld/content/2012/08/s3559131.htm?site=northwest

Listen to the audio.
Please note that Jamie Couples is one of the more sensible people in Qld, having to tackle this issue.
What this article/audio doesn't tell is that Jamie believes in cumpolsory training and responsibility is individual and belongs to the operator.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[JB83]

I'm very anti ROPS on quads and even they're fitment to tractors is questionable in some circumstances.
Has anyone ever thought of what consequences there could be if a quad fitted with a ROPS happened to catch a low tree branch?
Would be interesting to know how many deaths occured where more than one occupant was on the bike. The few accidents I know of had more than one person on the quad at the time.
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Yes i am a farmer, and NO that doesn't make me stupid, just MAD! KTM 505sx, the chicken splitter

[Dino]

Public submissions. Closes 24 the August.

http://www.safeworkaustralia.gov.au/sites/SWA/Legislation/PublicComment/Pages/ModelWHSCoPPC-4thSet.aspx
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

http://www.abc.net.au/rural/tas/content/2012/08/s3569199.htm?site=northtas

There is 4 minutes of fairly balanced reporting on this audio.
From about 35 minutes from the end.

Shorten is very clear, he's only interested in "engineering" the problem away, and threatening legislation.
Nothing has changed with this turkey from when he was a union rep.....
still a bloody minded little bully waving big sticks in my opinion.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[wendy]

I was thinking of mythbusters very own crash test dummy and mr Shorten at the same time.(also assasanations)when I decided we only need mythbusters to do some tests.eg works on Ytube fails on t.v.

[Dino]

Our mobs fighting back.
Article with poll.
http://www.weeklytimesnow.com.au/article/2012/08/15/524451_business-news.html
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.