OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Huskygoat]

I think its a little early for office bearers ..... there has been some really good suggestions made here and I would like to investigate bunch of guys already up and running.

My opinion only is we are only doing this because we do not have a voice . Sometimes that's a good thing when things are going down the toilet.

What is our mission????

Is our mission is to uniform rec rego Australia wide???

Keep land areas for riding open??

Identify land that can be used by responsible atv riders.

Is our mission to get quads rego for the road. Then we going to a gun fight.

I wouldn't worry about racing. Racing is strong even though sponsorship is down its up and up for racing in NT anyways.

How about somebody post some goals and get a idea where its heading.
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[Huskygoat]

This is what MA doesn't do for quads.

Announcement News
Dirt Track Forum in Sydney next weekend


Posted: Friday, 31st July, 2009 : 3:31 PM - - 506 Reads -


Motorcycling Australia (MA) will be hosting a Dirt Track Forum in Sydney on Saturday 8 August 2009, and any persons with an interest in the discipline of Dirt Track are invited to attend.
The Forum venue has moved from its original location and will now take place at the Bexley RSL Club – 24 Stoney Creek Road, Bexley in Sydney, NSW.

Attendees must RSVP and/or submit agenda items with Ross Martin by COB Wednesday 5 August 2009.

This Forum follows on from the previous Dirt Track Forum held in Port Macquarie last November, and provides an opportunity for interested people to discuss all aspects of Dirt Track racing in Australia.

Registration will commence at 9.30am with the Forum commencing at 10am.

For more information please contact Ross Martin on 03 9684 0504 or rmartin@ma.org.au.
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[Dazz]

Alot of people are contacting me in regards to a national quad assocation wanting to meet with me and voice there ideas...

thanks for the the support guys its you that will realy reap the benifits in time ..


im still placing my vote with the old hands with atvs like yogie and husky
for a pres and vice

its not to soon to be looking @ office bearers and its a shame no one from the allready formed quad assocations are stepping in to to nominate them self or there mates to take up the positions. i get the feeling they only care about there own little deal or maybe they dont take us serious ?

i dont give a Sxxx if you want to play golf as his high and mighty god of quads as long as your playing with the minister for Parks and Rec and asking him the big questions !!!!

[Linc]

Dazz; I understand your sentiment but howz about ya just wind it back a bit.......

Try being Mr Glass Half Full for a change. The people involved in all of the various clubs around the country give their free time to do the job they voluntieered for; I can assure you they want what you want and have all at some time tried to acheive that...........If it was easy it would have been done by now.

Their are only so many hours in the day and every hour spent banging your head against the wall of government burocracy is an hour not spent actually acheiving something on behalf of the club members that voted them in in the first place.

Here is where I stand

Some of the issues.........MA are a national organisation backed by the federal government - they are only interested in motorcycles.

Q: Does this mean that MA and the feds acknowledge that a quad is a form of motorcycle like a side car or trike?

The states control vehicle registration and the various types and definitions of what that registration covers. eg: What is defined as a road registered tractor as opposed to a car or heavy vehicle?. All of these have different registrations.

In Vic, trikes were registered as a car and you rode them on a car licience and you didn't have to ware a helmet, that was changed and they are now a bike, riden on a bike licience and you do have to ware a helmet.

Q: Where is the line drawn? the feds set Australian Design Rules (ADR's) but the states control registration. What is a Quad according to the Gov?

Yogie is right in that we can do alot of work free. All the answers are available if we look hard enough; the issue there is what to look for? and what do we do with it?.........will all this just mean that we do alot of leg work and chase our tail because we dont know what to do with what we have?.

I firmly believe we need legal advice to start with; we need a defined starting point if we are to move forward. Between the lot of us we have some pretty smart people and alot of knowledge and expertise but we have no direction, no next step.

If our legal advice is to find out (X), then and go do (Y) to go in a certain direction because that is the direction most likely to acheive what we want then we have the people here to do it.

What do we have to offer?........coz everyone wants something.

MONEY !!!!! .................20'000 new vehicle registrations per year, 50'000 re-registrations per year and up to 100'000 insurance policys per year. That gives both government and business a bloody good reason to give us what we want.

Is that what we want? is that price too high?

Linc

[Dazz]

yep linc its all good and some very good points ....

so who is elected qualified to go get the legal advise ?

lets elect him as temp Pres so some one makes the first step...

then we will have some direction

instead of being a backseat chicken with no head or a 1/2 full glass we become a monster with a bite

[Linc]

Dazz wrote:

yep linc its all good and some very good points .... so who is elected qualified to go get the legal advise ? lets elect him as temp Pres so some one makes the first step... then we will have some direction instead of being a backseat chicken with no head or a 1/2 full glass we become a monster with a bite

You really don't need a group or election, in fact it would be better if there wasn't. What we need is for someone to pull their finger out and just do it.

You wouldn't need much money to start either. Legal advice can be had for free; like anything it just depends on where you look.

The fed and state government dispence free services to anyone who knows who to ask. There are plenty of associations and groups around that could be approached.

In Vic we have the Victorian Automotive Chamber of Commerce (VACC) www.vacc.com.au/ it's an industry association that represents the Auto industry......I bet they have a lawyer.

There is the Federal Chamber of Automotive Industries. Same thing on a federal level. http://www.fcai.com.au/

Even if these guys can't help, I bet they can point you in the right direction.

[Huskygoat]

linc is it worth a member or person from each state approaching each state territory body as you described with the same statement . I deal with rego guys all the time in NT and probably could get some doors opened but remember NT is lawless society . There is law but nobody takes any notice.
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[Linc]

Huskygoat wrote:

linc is it worth a member or person from each state approaching each state territory body as you described with the same statement . I deal with rego guys all the time in NT and probably could get some doors opened but remember NT is lawless society . There is law but nobody takes any notice.

I don't see why not..........but don't ask them to allow rego for quads, tell them you "want" rego for quads and ask how it could be done.

Its a fine line but if you ask anyone in authority for rego the answer will be "no". To say yes means they will have to answer to their boss.

Yogie has been down this line; he's written letters to the head of the DSE and VicRoads (correct me if I'm wrong here Yogie) and was fobbed off with some load of cr@p excuses. These guys will not make that kind of decision for us.

But if you ask "how" it could be done, they will tell you (or give you an idea) as long as they don't have to do it them selves. I dont think you could do it in a letter either, you want a face to face.

Linc

[yogie]

Linc wrote:

Huskygoat wrote: linc is it worth a member or person from each state approaching each state territory body as you described with the same statement . I deal with rego guys all the time in NT and probably could get some doors opened but remember NT is lawless society . There is law but nobody takes any notice. I don't see why not..........but don't ask them to allow rego for quads, tell them you "want" rego for quads and ask how it could be done. Its a fine line but if you ask anyone in authority for rego the answer will be "no". To say yes means they will have to answer to their boss. Yogie has been down this line; he's written letters to the head of the DSE and VicRoads (correct me if I'm wrong here Yogie) and was fobbed off with some load of cr@p excuses. These guys will not make that kind of decision for us. But if you ask "how" it could be done, they will tell you (or give you an idea) as long as they don't have to do it them selves. I dont think you could do it in a letter either, you want a face to face. Linc

In Victoria, Vic roads wont give rec or normal reg because quads are not ADR'd simple as that. BUT there is specail reg for NON ADR'd vechilcles which if apllied for and the vechicle is used for its intended purposes THEN it will be aproved, (I want to add this NOT the farmers reg)
which to some down here think is against the law, BUT Vicroads will tell what you cant do but NEVER what you can do to get around it. And there are some down here that have sucsefully been using this form of rego for over four years now. And thats the sticking point for rego here until ATV's get ADR's Vicroads will not budge, So who decides on the ADR for imported vechilcles in Aust ? is that federal ?? I believe Victoria (the wouser state) will be the tough nut to crack simple as that, but get them to roll over and I feel your going to make it.
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[priesty]

In regards to the Australian design rules, if they can formulate a set for the roadgoing 3 wheel trikes (which I believe is the same set that apply to the can am spyder we,ve been seeing on the roads) then surely the same could be done for quads/atvs.
As previously stated, if the ADR's are controlled on a federal level & these rules conflict with or compromise the state registration schemes - both road & recreational, then perhaps this should be the focus for an argument to be made for a set of federal rego/ADR rules that complement each other.

just my 2c..
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[lukeb]

quad boy wrote:

well now we are getting some where and people are starting to state the facts instead of jumping down peoples throats, now we have a fair idea about how people are feeling, its time we let the powers that be know we are serious about this and we want something done about it . so now its down to who will get the ball rolling and that should be someone respected and influential. i do have one person in mind and i think you all know what he has done for quad racing and riding in australia, so i feel it would be only fair to mention Luke Beechey, i think he fits all these requirements and feel with his contacts in the sport , he would be the one. but this is only a suggestion, you may have someone else in mind, we are all ears.

You barely even know me and don't know what i do and don't do and as much as i appreciate the comments it probably isn't the best idea to go throwing peoples names around like that, the fact is there is all these people that come in to the sport and after a few months they have all these ideas which is great but they don't even realize that there is people that have been involved in quads for years and have put a lot of time and money and effort in to trying to make things happen but unfortunately it doesn't happen as quickly as we would always like, one thing i would like to ask is have half the people commenting on this and giving ideas ever been to an ATV event in Australia that consists of more than 5 guys getting together for a social ride ?? as far as i am concerned i am new to the sport only having been involved for 6 years now but i was there when 5-10 riders turned up to events and now there is 150 +. People need to stop for a sec and have a look and see how it got to where it is now and understand that it will continue to grow it just wont happen over night and the guys that are actually making things happen are not on here all day and don't listen to the rubbish people talk because they are making things happen and asking nothing in return.
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What would you know i read it on a forum it must be true ha ha

[yogie]

priesty wrote:

In regards to the Australian design rules, if they can formulate a set for the roadgoing 3 wheel trikes (which I believe is the same set that apply to the can am spyder we,ve been seeing on the roads) then surely the same could be done for quads/atvs. As previously stated, if the ADR's are controlled on a federal level & these rules conflict with or compromise the state registration schemes - both road & recreational, then perhaps this should be the focus for an argument to be made for a set of federal rego/ADR rules that complement each other. just my 2c..

spot on fella and it would be as easy crash testing, etc, but they will say the spyder was designed for the road and nothing else, so its passed through the testing stage, of crash testing and the like, Does anyone know how and who tests trail bikes/road bikes for adr in aust ?
_________________
2005 KFX700
With a few bells and whistles
and the twin yoshi's
American Star A-arms, tie rods
elka stickers
Shorty Shifter
I have a Waco
rossco gave me a flexx sticker
honda thumb
Great at climbing trees
durablue stickers

[Clarkie]

Back when Yamaha made the YZ250WR (00-04)models for sale here they ran for 4 years and cost $30,000 a year to get ADR complied and they had to produce a minimum of 100 per model, All the work was done by YRD and they were done so the Europeans could race a Yamaha 2 banger in the A4DE, so I suspect you would be looking at $30,000+ per quad model that want to be ADR'd and a minimum of 100 per model would have to be produced per year?
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[Dazz]

Quote:

there is people that have been involved in quads for years and have put a lot of time and money and effort in to trying to make things happen

Hi luke .. being one of those that have come into the sport with ideas after riding for a while .. and who has absolutly no interest in racing or events could you maybe fill in the missing parts and tell us about some of these people that are spending the time and money to make sure my 3 year old has a place to ride thats not on a race track ?

sorry for sounding smart ... but for things to move forward its allways good to have a full glass to drink with ...

[lukeb]

Dazz wrote:

Quote: there is people that have been involved in quads for years and have put a lot of time and money and effort in to trying to make things happen Hi luke .. being one of those that have come into the sport with ideas after riding for a while .. and who has absolutly no interest in racing or events could you maybe fill in the missing parts and tell us about some of these people that are spending the time and money to make sure my 3 year old has a place to ride thats not on a race track ? sorry for sounding smart ... but for things to move forward its allways good to have a full glass to drink with ...

No need to be sorry mate i couldn't agree more with what you want i would love to have more places to ride and for kids also, i know some of the quad clubs have members involved that have had numerous meetings with government and i even know some people that have shown them they have the money to invest in quad ride areas but they always have some crap to stop it for some reason, i am all for working on places to ride i just want who ever heads it up to really have a good under standing on some history and info so we have the best chance at getting what we want and as much as i don't have that info i will do my best to help, i guess we need to look at it as a long term plan and not just something we will get over night.
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What would you know i read it on a forum it must be true ha ha

[shan660]

lukeb wrote:

I got dibs on being president and all meetings are on the golf course whos with me ??????

sorry luke but only got an idea u were interested from when u posted this, my mistake.

[Huskygoat]

Just spoke to Jordy for some time about this issue. He will sit down with me next week a draw up a letter to get the MA lawyers to have look at this.

He also said he has tried and failed twice to get a commission on atv established . He would put up a motion and no one would second it. Now thats pretty lame don't you think. Problem is MA cover so many types of Motorsport that they think their chosen sport is the only one that matters. Like the WA guy is speedway no help there. OUTCAST

Jordy said it will be a long process but you got to start some time.

Who's attending the dirt track fourm next week?????
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Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[Dazz]

good one husky whats next?

[Huskygoat]

Some thing that's bugging me Jordy said today that road going rego vehicle must have slip diff not a locked axle like on our straight axle machines.

Q is there a locked axle registist machine out there?????
_________________
Truth and Honor and Trust ... never under estimate Them.

[gazman]

Well there are a few things we can do for the cause.there is a survey that EVERY,EVERY person that looks at this forum SHOULD do .go to http://www.australiandirtbikeadventures.com.au/ and fill out the survey to send some info about our needs.It does cover Quads.this will help a bit if we send them some figures but i think all of us must do it.This is for QLD,maybe SE QLD. Terry Morris and Brett Murray have started www.placetorace.com.au have a look,might be worth supporting them.
Gotta start somewhere. gazman.

[Dazz]

thats a fantastic thing those guys are doing there ill support them
but what a shame i cant see any mention of somthing that resembles enduro tracks ...... i guess its more about getting back there race tracks

i guess what we all want is Public Bike parks ... that cater for every thing
kind of like a manor park in every city ......

[gazman]

iI think its about giving anyone in any motorsport a voice,including enduros.I would be pretty happy if this helped in any way.Most people involed in motorsport use tracks,so there will be more voices but it is a good move in the right direction.At the moment,placetorace is about SE Qld but it could be a model for any area or state to use for the same reasons.I am going to spend the weekend emailing EVERY councillor on the plce to race website. Should" place to race" and the survey on dirtbike world be put up as stickies??Mods?

[Dazz]

i sent this email the other day to all council members in my area

Quote:

Hi I wish to express my deep concern that while surfing, jet skiing, Rock climbing, hang gliding, Bmx riding, Skateboards, Bushwalking, shooting and many other adventure sports have been catered for in Queensland with many areas to perform these sports that no effort has been made to provide suitable areas for Trail bike riding in Queensland especially here in my own area of the Gold Coast. Much Effort has been made to promote Queensland's active outdoors life style yet the sad reality is that we trail bike riders are being discriminated against with no public areas to perform our sport. We need assistance from the state government tp open our state forests so we may enjoy our sport without having to pay expensive commercial trail bike parks or ride illegally in state forests and local reserves. Hundreds of adults and children are having to ride illegally each week in state forestry and bush land reserves in and around populated areas as no legal public places to ride have been provided by local councils. There have been a few commercial motocross tracks scattered across the state unfortunately these only cater for racers and are not a safe or suitable place for a family with small children to socially trail ride. Currently families’ have no option than to ride illegally or travel far and pay expensive commercially owned trail bike park fees. In the past the government has been more than willing to take taxes for the sales of our specialized clothing and machines and yet the government and councils have not made available public places for the sport to be performed. In closing, I am requesting your support to open our state forests for riding and to nominate a body to govern the use of the state forests and lands so ATV , Trail bike riders and other off-road vehicle enthusiasts can enjoy their sport Legally, safely and without unduly impacting our unique natural environment. I eagerly await your response.

i got some replys.....

heres one of them

Quote:

Thanks for your email and for making me aware of your views. I cannot support the opening of State Forests or Environmental Reserves for riding but agree a safe and supervised venue is necessary. Be assured that as a Council we will carefully consider this issue before making a decision on the future of motor sports in our City. It is hoped that we can determine a site away from residential properties where there will not be an impact on the amenity of people's homes. Yours sincerely Donna Gates Councillor Division 1

and another

Quote:

Thank you for your email. Your comments are noted and have been passed on to the Mayor for his information and or further response. Kind regards Kerrie Gendle Secretary to Mayor Ron Clarke MBE

im planning to email them every week

feel free to use my email and mail it to all the council members in your area ....

[PeteW]

Dazz wrote:

im still placing my vote with the old hands with atvs like yogie and husky for a pres and vice its not to soon to be looking @ office bearers and its a shame no one from the allready formed quad assocations are stepping in to to nominate them self or there mates to take up the positions. i get the feeling they only care about there own little deal or maybe they dont take us serious ?

Aside from the fact that I have been away for the last couple of weeks Dazz, maybe you need to approach the State based clubs directly with your idea if you want a real response for them, I am on the QRCV committe and agree in principal to a national ATV organisation but I cannot speak for my fellow committee members or for the club in general and most of them (the rest of the committee) won't offer up a response on here anyway.

I would gladly be a part of setting up a national association. feel free to call me on 0419 001 747
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[Dazz]

PeteW wrote:

Dazz wrote: im still placing my vote with the old hands with atvs like yogie and husky for a pres and vice its not to soon to be looking @ office bearers and its a shame no one from the allready formed quad assocations are stepping in to to nominate them self or there mates to take up the positions. i get the feeling they only care about there own little deal or maybe they dont take us serious ? Aside from the fact that I have been away for the last couple of weeks Dazz, maybe you need to approach the State based clubs directly with your idea if you want a real response for them, I am on the QRCV committe and agree in principal to a national ATV organisation but I cannot speak for my fellow committee members or for the club in general and most of them (the rest of the committee) won't offer up a response on here anyway. I would gladly be a part of setting up a national association. feel free to call me on 0419 001 747

i dont think im qualified to be approaching clubs on behalf of us Enduro atv riders i think it is a job for people like yourself, husky or yogi who are little more savy with past events and who have a few more contacts than myself

Right now im trying to beat down the governments door and alert them to the issue as much as possible

NOW is a good time make a move on govememt, forests and council as there is alot of talk here between councilers on the gold coast , mike hatcher and reedy creek and the kart guys are pushing the council for a "serve every stye motor sport ride/race park" and i want to make sure WE enduro riders get a bite of the cherry ....

with all the councilers aware and desperate for a solution its a good time to strike ... what happens here on the gold coast could well become the prototype for the rest of the country ..