OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[bullet]

Sounds like a good idea.
Maybe a club rep should have an informal chat with someone from the body who is driving the process.
In the hope of opening up an opportunity to throw them some options.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Whoo?? as in:

Who me???

I dont even own a quad yet!!

(Donor quads accepted!!)
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[fossil800R]

Is it possible to get some idea as to a central location that will suit the majority, that way we aren't chasing regional authorities in the wrong area.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Ive had a bit of a chat (hours) with Pete from QRCV to see what they thought they were doing and what role they had to play.

It seems overall they were heading in that direction but had no direct plan yet.

Im for threowing my weight into them if they are willing to take on the development and ongoing support as an association.

They have a demographic of location of riders so far, we may need to augment that data.

The thing is we dont just want an area to ride we probably want to grow the sport or show a plan for growth to get area's like state and local govts behind us as well as primary importers and secondary dealerships for money, we have to chase $$'s and that means planning growth.

Yes a central location is a good thing especially for an initial site. Couldnt agree more.

But design factors should influence our ultimate selection of site and so on.

QRCV meeting is in two weeks, we should be having some kind of discussion there or prior that determines who's driving what from where so we co-ordinate our resources and get the ball rolling fast enough to leave a skiddy in Indiana Jones' pants!!

Talk fast, act faster before we loose the enthusiasm....
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Speaking of design factors I promised I'd look through my back issues of dirt wheels for an article on how to build a ride park.

Have found it, if you have the Mag its Aug 2006 edition.

Its actually a pretty short article, but I know that myself I have some engineering quals in plant layout (as in where to locate what for best work flow) and this will directly translate to designing a ride park.

Im sure there are others with many skills including trail and race tracks etc etc.

So when we are starting to put together a proposal an interesting exercise for everyone is to maybe go through designing the park so each of us may come up with different issues and how to resolve them.

Rgds

Gav
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[Gravedigger]

Yeah Gav we do need to "act faster" but more importantly we need to find out if the club is behind this and if so let's formalise this. The united body of the QRCV will be a huge advantage in any proposals we put forward and pursue.

Anyone who is in support of this whole movement then I would encourage them to attend the next QRCV meeting,join the club and get involved.
The possibilities for this thing to be developed are enormous with the right people behind it, people with a "real passion".

Cheers Deano

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Agreed Deano, and have spoken at length with Pete Wilhelms about getting some king of notification to committee members about this being on the table so we dont have a 3 hour circular discussion about yeah we all agree its a good idea.

If we can just table something and agree how were going to approch and who has to be involved and let those people walk away with the work to do I think would be the best solution.

As I said before I understand from Pete that it has been part of the QRCV agenda in the long term to make this happen, now if all we need to do is inject people with some time and enthusiasm and throw some leadership across that we can agree that in 30 minutes everyone can have a social beer get to know who's going to be supporting each other and make next point of business.

Fully agree with what your saying. A bit of prep for the QRCV in the next 2 weeks so they are not torpedoed/ambushed when the juggernaught of enthusiasm to a trail (or any non-racing or extra racing) style components are put on the table.

I hope Pete is still following the posts and can maybe add a lil feedback on what his aproach with the QRCV is going to be.

The we can put our enthusiasm into some traction and attack this puppy.

Hope Im not sounding too megalomaniacal?? Coz i do sound like that when I get excited and can see a plan of action.

If so pull on my reins hey.

Gav
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

PeteW

Has deliberately updated the QRCV meeting thread with all dates of upcoming meeting.

Next one is in two weeks. Im planning on attending at this point and as I always point out to anyone, Im an invalid pensioner and illness means my plans can change in a matter of hours.

Who can come and if you cant come what do you want said??

Lets hear it!

Im certainly going to to ask Pete to give the commitee a heads up on this rampaging herd of quad riding wildebeast heading their way. But if we have some special info we need to or can pu together pre meeting lets get it out in the open.

Gav
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[Gravedigger]

Can't make meetings at present as I'm still in an invalid state of wellbeing.
Once I'm able to drive or someone is traveling from the L.V. to meetings I
could get a lift and be present.

In the meantime people let it be known that I am fully behind this idea and
prepared to do whatever I can to research and develop it to give us the best opportunity to provide facilities and grow and develop our sport/passion for the future.

Cheers Deano.

[bullet]

Just a thought guys...
If you want to put a proposal forward quick smart, don't get to hung up in design details and track layout.
Just use big shaded areas for general lay out and support the document with qualifications, experience and capeabilities.

I am sure people like YAIM and Rod Jenner would help add credibility for track design etc.
Even list the local tracks and their respective curators time and experience, like Colin Ovens etc etc.

sorry if that was obvious, I'd just like to see you all nail this and set a healthy precedent for every other state.

best of luck.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Thank Bullett,

those were exactly my thoughts to a T, maybe even coming in just one level higher even and going in asking the straight out question of, do the QRCV feel they have a role in this?. I already know the answer that and it is yes. It was one of their goals when forming.

Then have they done much about it yet?. I know the answer to this is no. Their concentrataion has been on racing and with only a year and a half under their belts they have done well to keep that going and grow it.

Are they in a position to through resources and ownership of advancing it this year?. Thats what we'll discuss and find out at the meeting I guess.

With some kind of affirmative from there i would expect to see some resources getting together to put up a proposal for the coittee to review and validate for overall projection into the community. Just a a skeleton idea of my own on how that might progress at that point..

Someone at the meeting may have a better one.

But I do know they have always intended to tackle the issue, if they feel they have racing under control in the state then they may feel they are in a position to put resources at problem 2. Rec riding in whatever/ every form we can get it.

So I dont think we are at proposal level yet or that we need to for the QRCV knowing they already have a commitment to it, its just a matter of resources. Thats about as specific as Ive thought if you have anything to add to that feel free and welcome.

Deano, fully appreciate your problem with my own state atm. And of course we are represented far and wide i would hope in terms of people wanting to participate. And they may not be able to make it just on distance alone.

Knowing you cant make it and having your commtment, what sort of things do you think you can do to progress the issue? Where do your area's of expertise and interest lie that you see yourself being able to do?.

There is going to be much more work than volunteers I guarantee you that. There is a lot of work here.

It may be an elephant but Im not intimidated by that, I tend just to start with the elephant ear soup entree and work on it from there. Just win the game in increments.

Rgds

Gav
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Bump>

7 days to the day and no further interest? Only about 4 guys participating in discussion? No further idea;s from people who will not be able to attend yet?

Just questions.

But did the extent of our enthusiasm die in a week?

I would have thought that a lot more people would be interested in posting comment on the issue.

If we look at other motorcycle sports Rec riders outnumber racers by at least 5-1 or more. I think we have about 571 registered racers in Vic (Just came across a figure ike that in posts)

So not having anywhere formal to ride I anticipate the number of Rec riders to racers to be as little as 2-1 and maybe 4-1 if you include ag users.

Have we all been that disenchanted by a lack of sucess before?

I know I approached the govt directly twice to try and locate someone who knew or would take responsibility on the issue, but I'll go at it again, Im not gunna be knocked on my arse.

I think if we cant put numbers of intent on the ground at the QRCV meeting how ca we expect them to make it a priority or resource the issue.

Lets keep the buzz going and get more people in on the thread, much more people in on the thread.

If we want it, we'll have to drive it.

Regards and support

Gavin
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[Barney]

Not being negative , im all for a ride park to happen , but i think that if it was to be central in this state it would nearly have to be somewhere near melbourne. im sure there would be a lot of people that would travel to a ride park as many as there would be people that would not.

Yes we all should band together for a combined effort but i also think that due to cost of living and fuel expenses how many people would contribute to a ride park financially, and further more how many would spend 3 hours in there car to go for a trail ride to the same place say about once a month,

As i love my trail riding i like varied riding places and would not like to ride the same place over and over again.

This is just a few thoughts as i am not attacking any of the great thoughts or ideas already in the threads

Maybe lets have a poll on who would contribute financially and also on a physical aspect of helping to get it started and to maintain it.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Thats not a negative response in the slightest Grizz, its the kind of open and honest feedback we need to put into this process for people to take on board if were gunna get the pig to fly.

I agree I dont want to ride the same track over and over as a trail rider, gettin out there is what its all about. Thats my own personal view.

Do we need to own it or contribute towards owning it? Times are tough, remember you're speaking to the guy who is still saving for a frikin quad, I dont even got one yet, so yeah I understand people's reticense to let go of any of their hard earned atm.

In fact Im completely opposed to any personal contributions and that state, local govts, primary and secondary and even tertiary industries should kick in if they want a market to service. But once again thats just my view, so at the moment Im even more left than you.

My concern is the what do we do if we at least dont do this, if we dont at least give it one crack at putting something together. If we let it slide another year, two, ten, give our kids no legacy of a sport.

A very wizened old man said once, if you stand for nothing you fall for everything.

Where are the people who stand to fiscally benefit from this in this discussion? Legal Trail riding will cause a boon of sales in primary (eg Polaris level) secondary (Dealer level) and tertiary (moders and component producers) industries.

I think we can look bigger than a ride park, but if I have to start with one to get more than access to that area I'll nibble my elephants ear and I'll keep pushing the rest of it inch by inch towards the mincer.

But for us to do anything my first arguement is that we need to do it under the auspices of an organisation, so I repeat my earlier question of who is going to QRVC to see what they have to say and who is going to have the minerals to own it either there or elsewhere dependant on the wishes of RR's Vic wide.

Like I said in another post, is a soapbox a slippery place to stand!?!?!

Thanks for your response and others who have already, lets spread it and get more responses. Isnt that what this thread is for?

Just a qwik sorry if I am sounding over zealous but when I see a few brave men standing for the opportunity to grow and develop quad riding in general and perhaps achieve for the first time legal Rec Riding of quads as an outcome I get a lil overexcited. So apologies again, dont mean to offend anyone or stir the pot.

I believe from suggestions we have had so far is perhaps summarised as a home for QRCV, which may include race tracks and even soe trail rides and then as a seperate issue there is Rec Riding all up in Vic. Whether we can gain access to that in perpetuity.

If QRCV have a plan for item one that we dont know of in the general population that are not yet part of QRCV maybe they can share some vision with us re that.

And then secondly if QRCV have any plans in Rec Riding as well if they would like to outline those prior to the meeting come Mon 7th we may get more Rec Riders along and interested in becoming members of QRCV.

I believe there is an opportunity to attack both ATM and will try to not take any nay saying from within the quad world as there is going to be so much nay saying outside it, if we make a concesion of giving up on one now we will fail again.

Sorry if i appear blunt, but Im just entusiastic and sorry for being obtuse and makng such a large post.

Regards

Gavin
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[Gravedigger]

Gav, did you end up making the QRCV meeting, if so what's the latest?, does there seem to be a level of support to aide the cause.
Cheers Deano.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Gravedigger wrote:

Gav, did you end up making the QRCV meeting, if so what's the latest?, does there seem to be a level of support to aide the cause. Cheers Deano.

Mate you would not believe it, I went to the meeting at a place callled the Tower hotel, why I went to the tower hotel or thought the meeting was there is at this stage beyond my comprehension. Part of my syndrome?

The only phone number I had for anyone was unavailable.

By the time I checked a 2nd Tower hotel and got home to get another commitee phone number there was not much point in going back even though Pete was yet to table the items I discussed with him.

What I do know and discussed with him was:

1/ The Vic Roads tender that Priesty referred to and posted was not dead as I incorrectly assumed but is alive and the Vic Roads are looking to draw up a tender for their selected provider. Terms of the tender are data only and Quads are involved no doubting it. See priesty's post on the tender and read it literally not interperatively like me.

2/ That means that there is no proposal on the table to rec reg quads, YET! Not saying its even a possibility but at least the door is open a crack.

My views

3/ ATV Vic needs to get out of a meeting room and into a clubhouse so that is something we could look at in the short term. Even if rec reg was ever approved it does just mean we are going to get more racers anyway so new tracks are warranted and every major sporting association has theor own complex. We need one. Do we set to work on it this year. We'll have to wait to here what Pete tabled and the commitee said.

We must have a Frogmore park equivalent, Time to get some people together and busy with lobbying Governments, manufacturers, dealers, 3rd party businesses, any one who stands to make a buck and ask them for a buck.

4/ I have discovered in the last week that there is no national body eg, ATV Australia. That in itself means we cannot have representation at MA and so how can we even get a mention at meeting let alone get the kind of support we need for things like rec reg. I also put that to Pete to lay before the Commitee.

But on the whole we need to think about what represents ATV Victoria and then look at how the hell we expect to have any brand recognition when we dont even have a National Ruling body??

Where are the Manufacturers and dealers who are trying to make a buck while this whole heap of nothing that makes us a frikin cottage industry??

We must have an ATV Aust and theres no reason we cant sponsor that this year. Otherwise we will remain a cottage industry.

As far as reg is concerned look at thew kind of bikes cirrently being ADR'd The Can Am Spider, the Piaggio and Gillera two front wheeled scooters. So are are all trkes open for ADR since they are tehnically trikes? Are quads now available for ADR because we already have the safety data from America that shows that quads have 3 times less crashes than 2 wheelers? Rhetorical questions but you can see the saense and logic, but people can just answer those in definitive statements from black and white rules that would prevent such, they coiuld just make it too hard if they wanted too. Hence we need a national authority affiliated with MA.

So those are just myu views I was going to put up. Just have to hope Pete was able to table them and get some feedback.

I'll try and cut myself short there so I dont loose an audience and hopefully Pete can post something somewhere.

Hope your coming together Deano, remember Im home every day mate so get in touch if you want a natter or a visit or something I'll see what I can work out. Love to get around a table with someone else or a few guys to work on a/ some proposals.

Reagrds

gavin

03 9879 9475
0413 243 084
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[PeteW]

after last nights meeting the clubs view is that until there is some representation at the meetings for any kind of recreational riding activity there is really no drive to pursue an of these avenues.

Given that there was exactly zero members there that weren't there because the are involved in racing that doesn't bode well for getting any of these ideas discussed officially through the QRCV.

FYI Gavin there have been proposals put to Vic Roads before for Rec Reg ATV's which have gone nowhere.

we have/had National Quad Advisory Committee to MA which I was involved in for a while and if the way that worked is anything to go by then forming an real national organisation with a clear directive would be near impossible given the lack of ability for the state delegates to be able to aggree on anything.

Myself personally (not as a member of the QRCV committee) would support the formation of a national association if there was a real need for one but at the moment we seem to have enough representation with MA through the state based clubs which are all MA affiliates.

My thoughts on how to get any official body's (including the clubs) involved is with a show of numbers at meetings and the willingness to lay the ground work without expecting the club to do all the work for the cause.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Thanks Pete for the update.

I agree people should be there if they want support (RR's that is), thats why I was trying, but will try again.

Having said that I would see the creation of something like frogmore actually much MORE in the domain of the QRCV as they could build 3-4 different track types for racing and trail riders would get one the couldnt vary all year?? I wouldve hoped for more support for that from the QRCV or am I reading that wrong? Do QRCV feel they have enough circuits and also satisfactory home accomodation?

The national body, lies lies and more bloody politics. I didnt know of the state direct involvement with MA so if MA have a meeting does each state turn up as a sole representative? A lil confused as to how that working.

I know about the Vic Roads stuff, I myself have failed twice just at making simple enquiries. Thats one of the reasons I support a national authority, with the new models that are getting ARD approval, we can bypass Vic roads in the same manner ARD approval. Out there suggestion I know, but I guess that what you get froim someone who knows nothing and is willing to make a fool of himself over it!!

Thanks for slipping that in.

The challenge is in the RR court to turn up, but also I think the challenge is on QRCV to think about who "VICMORE" park is really for.
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[PeteW]

Pretty much what the QRCV committee consensus was, is that for any of these possibilities to be really looked at that there would need to be people on board to be able to follow them up. As I have said before the majority of the QRCV committee are there because of their involvement in racing and currently pretty much all of the clubs personnel resources are tied up with racing.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

The challenge is pretty clear isnt it Pete, its up to people to get off their blurt.

I'll give it some time but one man (and soime would say half a man or less) pushing a boulder doesnt get far.

Is anyone going to indicate any interest in any way?

Can we not turn up to the QRCV Aug meeting? Whether you consider yourself a racer or a RR or both people need to be involved instead of just the same old faces. Anyone got any enthusiasm about the future of their sport?
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[Lugz]

I would love to get into a "Commitee" to organize some where to ride!! I know how you guys feel. 5 minutes down the road from my place is the local state forrest, and you can get there by riding along the fence line that runs along my road (I've only ridden as far as the highway). Its quite hard to see someone riding along there from the road!!! The only problem is that you have to cross the princes highway to get to the forrest.

Only last week there were about 10-15 guys on there bikes heading out for a ride. The funny thing was that it looked like some of them were taking there kids with them.
Im pretty sure you couldn't rec rego a 12 year old on an 85cc?!?!?!?

I am still trying to work the guts up to head out!! The cops out my way love to pull people up for anything. But if any one is heading up to the east gippsland way (and wants to chance a $500 fine) you are quite welcome to use my place as a bace camp (We live on 42 acres). I would give my left nut (if the wife lets me have them back) to have a weekend ride with any one, but no one around my are ownes a quad. PM me if you are interested. Im free any weekend.
I plan on attending the August QRCV meeting, and if any one would like to discuss a park or a place to ride feel free!!!
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Lugz

You're a champ to make a commitment to travel from Lakes Entrance to Melbourne to make a QRCV meeting .

Gravedigger who started this post is your way in Gippy and he's injured from a track accident and looking for a lift up if anyones coming so maybe we can hook you two up.

I will discuss anything with anyone at any time if that has not become apparent from my posting schedule.

I think I spoelt it out before as to what my views were and thats we need a home, its for all quads in Vic but the race tracks will probably be a much bigger benefit.

I would love to get some peaople layout idea's for a park, get your kids interested, draw some stuff.

I can see multiple layout tracks and several of those, a drag/sprint strip, a speedway style MX track for drifting, and then maybe some competition bog holes? At least One full format enduro track with as many variations of skipping or includingobstacles, turns etc as you like.

True trail riders have already indicated they'd like to see that but would like different places to ride regularly, but I see that as a seperat issue to this one issue and that VICMORE park.
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[Gravedigger]

Howdy Lugz, welcome aboard and would love to join u for a ride as soon as I can get back on one of my qods.

Well I am sorry that currently there is no support at QRCV level for a state
base for a riding/racing facility, but guys it is up to us to be that support and guide/drive this thing. I'm sure if the club can see that there are others than the ones doing all the work at the moment prepared to work toward this then we will get more club/comittee support and get this thing moving.

Hoping to travel to the next meeting with Lugz when I will once again put it to the club to see the benefit of this and get them onboard.

Cheers Deano.

[PeteW]

Gravedigger wrote:

I'm sure if the club can see that there are others than the ones doing all the work at the moment prepared to work toward this then we will get more club/comittee support and get this thing moving.

that pretty much what it comes down to deano.
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[Gravedigger]

Thanks Pete for putting it up for discussion. What I personally would like to see initially is somewhere for our club to base itself, maybe with another club I don't know. We really need to have a facility to be able to grow and develop the sport on a very low key club/family level so as people/families can easily get involved without having to travel all across the state following something like the State 8 series. Ideally a large property to be developed over time as the sport grows would be best but to get to that we really need to grow our numbers.
Cheers Deano.