OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[ddingo]

Just got my new rule book for 2011.

I thought they were letting us race the new 125 yamaha rapator in the old 90, 110 class.I am just trying to clear this up before i go out and buy one for my daughter.

can anyone clear this up for me?
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[Rotax46]

No new rule changes.

therfore 125cc can not be raced in 90/110 class under current rules.
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Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

[last minute racing]

What was the quad committee for??. Hope my daughter can ride her water cooled blaster at 13. What about Nationals??. Raptors are water cooled aren't they
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Yamaha all the way except for the Pro Shark

[bullet]

What was the quad committee for??
Good question.
Unfortunately the Board of MA has been fairly bombarded at their regular meetings and the quad recommendations have been defered a couple of times.
Missing the last one meant there was no chance of them making print for the 2011 rule book.
We are not happy that quads were not a big enough priority to make discussion, but that does point out that perhaps the committee needs to do more to be taken seriously.
We tried to follow all of the MA processes for 2010 and even had the first ever MA facilitated NQAC face to face meeting in Melbourne.
The board obviously don't know enough about quads, and to some degree that might be your quad committees fault.
Or at least we should be in the best shoes to do something about it.
My mission now is to make sure we are better known, can get heard and get some answers at the Board level.

MA still have a few options to change the rules for 2011.
The process is set out on page 38 of the 2010 GCR's and is apparently quite common.
(it would have been clearer to do it the normal way but...)
So the rules may still change, and the answers given above are correct.
If there are no printed rule changes, then the current rules are it.

In the 2010 manual, page 110 MOTORCROSS... You can race a watercooled blaster at the Nationals.
As was the case last year, and 'if unchanged' will remain the case for 2011.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[Rotax46]

By the 2011 Manual you can still run the water cooled at National level, the only change there is that there is now a class for Girls in the 200 - 300cc class. See Page 108.
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Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

[Mrs_Gaitar]

Found out the only way to get something through with MA is to pester the "profanity removed" out of them, until you know its finally done, also woulda been nice had they actually spelt all the nats podium placegetters names correctly, thats laziness. (got our name correct its others I'm looking at)

This isnt the first time the NQAC has busted its ass all year to have all their work miss the updated rule book.

Guess what was told last time, start again !

This is exactly what makes volunteers throw their hands in the air and walk away.
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[Barcoo Bandit]

We purchased a raptor 125 in september hoping the rules would allow this bike to race this year. I certanly hope the rules change to allow this class to grow as this bike is a good stepping stone to the raptor 250s it will be dissapointing if she cant race this bike this year.

From Bill Dillon
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bill

[michaelh]

Hi all, I tried to pester by sending two different MA reps emails regarding the silly 90 - 110cc rules and had NO responses, which was very dissapointing.
My son did the 3 tri-states in 2009 on his FYM 110cc quad and was mostly smashed by the kids on 90cc pro sharks (the ones that finished anyway).
What I found is that his 110cc 4 stroke was comparable in performance to a 50cc Pro Shark.
This got me thinking.............what sort of stupid class is the 90 - 110cc? Seriously, it should be called the Pro Shark class as a 4 stroke competing against a similar or same capicity 2 stroke is just a joke.
My son competed an all 3 tri-state rounds in 2010 on his new Pro Shark and we had nothing but a years worth of trouble with it. I sold it and bought him a Pitster Pro FXR 125cc (look them up). It was half the price of a Pro Shark and so far has proven to be 100% reliable.
Untlil this Junior class is fixed, my son (and myself) will not be competing in any MX events. Affordability and reliability is the key to getting a successful Junior class running properly in Aus.
As for the rules, we need a 90cc MAXIUM 2-stroke class and a 125cc Max 4-stroke class in my opinion. As far as I know, this is how it is run in the States.
PS, for all thoses guys running Pro Sharks, don't worry too much about a 125cc threat. My sons Pitster Pro was still not quite as grunty as a Pro Shark. You need at least a 150cc to be a true threat. The biggest worry for a Pro Shark is that the Pitster Pro will make the end of the race........
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[JONO]

michaelh wrote:

My son did the 3 tri-states in 2009 on his FYM 110cc quad and was mostly smashed by the kids on 90cc pro sharks (the ones that finished anyway).

Haha can't believe you'd even joke about a fym110 being more reliable than a pro shark, neither of them are the most reliable things but its really not that hard to be more reliable than an FYM.
Not going to bother responding to the rest of your post, there'll always be parents trying to even up the 90cc class.

[ozquad44]

michaelh wrote:

This got me thinking.............what sort of stupid class is the 90 - 110cc? Seriously, it should be called the Pro Shark class as a 4 stroke competing against a similar or same capicity 2 stroke is just a joke..

Sounds like everyone can see there is a problem with this class except the people who have the ability to effect change.
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[jumbo danny]

ozquad44 wrote:

michaelh wrote: This got me thinking.............what sort of stupid class is the 90 - 110cc? Seriously, it should be called the Pro Shark class as a 4 stroke competing against a similar or same capicity 2 stroke is just a joke.. Sounds like everyone can see there is a problem with this class except the people who have the ability to effect change.

Micheal your been helped by many of us that own prosharks and yet you still insist to bag them not good way to go about things , we have not had many failures at all but yes you do need to maintain them as you do any race machine these quads have become so much better over the years but you don't know the history of quad junior racing that started on AG QUADS .

by the way what size did the pister pro come out ??
thats right you down sized the motor also not allowed in the current rule book this year
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& also a member of SA KIAB racing team .

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[pyjamas]

not on all pitster pro websites!!!!!
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[pyjamas]

http://shop.pitsterpro.com/raceatvs.aspx
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and everyone else who helped us

[pyjamas]

http://shop.pitsterpro.com/raceatvs.aspx
_________________
If you're not having fun, it's not worth doing

Thanks to
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Squire Sisters Racing
Motorcycle Parts an Gear
Off Road Vixens
Burra Tyres
SA Quad Club
and everyone else who helped us

[pyjamas]

[quote="michaelh"]What I found is that his 110cc 4 stroke was comparable in performance to a 50cc Pro Shark.


MMM... my stock 90 Raptor was still able to beat the stock Pro Shark 50 with x2 adults doing the test!!!!
_________________
If you're not having fun, it's not worth doing

Thanks to
The Goldfinches
Squire Sisters Racing
Motorcycle Parts an Gear
Off Road Vixens
Burra Tyres
SA Quad Club
and everyone else who helped us

[bullet]

Guys the real issue is that most small junior quads are built to an American SVIA standard that for one states that no quad in that category shall exceed 30 miles per hour top speed regardless. (48kmh).
Even before Pro-sharks, many 4 stroke 90cc manufacturers physically detuned or restricted even 90cc four strokes to meet this requirement.
They each do this differently, and some small manufacturers don't bother with the standard at all.
To pick one example tha i know well, the Can-Am DS90XMX is knocked back by a deliderate retarding of the timing by 2 degrees and the use of a very low compression piston, which actually finishes it's stroke 1.8mm below the top of the bore.
The DS90 is deliberately slowed down from the factory as are all of the other models from the 'big' manufacturers.

So for the OEM class... the displacement should not really matter if all the quads are built to this Y10 standard, 48kmh max.
It would be possible to achieve this with even a 50cc 4 stroke built accordingly.

Other than that you are pretty much correct, once you start doing modifications, a 90cc 2 stroke is about the equal to a 125cc four stroke.
(that is with the same amount work etc etc).

250 dirt bikes are a good example of where this goes the other way.
You will all notice that for 2011 the 250cc limit applies to both 2 and 4 strokes.
There is so much technology being poured into 4 strokes these days that the 2 strokes are being left behind.
Look at the 2011 MOMS Australian Championship classes, page 108 under Motocross, "Up to 250cc (2 or 4 stroke)" and "255cc to 450cc 2 or 4 stroke".
In high level MX racing in the US, of a 20 grid start (all 250cc) with maybe 5 entrants on 2 strokes, they would be lucky to get a place.
A 4 strokes 250 would normally take 1st, 2nd and 3rd.

Our Junior Quads are nowhere near there yet, and for us, how fair junior racing is should be our main concern.
Your NQAC tried to tune these rules for 2011 and failed to get through.
We also recognised that the junior section of the rules would need a very thorough revisit in 2011 for 2012.

I am hammering at the door right now.
A bit disheartened, but not stopping.

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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[michaelh]

Hi Jono, I never said an FYM was more reliable than a Pro Shark. Please read again.

Thanks Danny, sorry but I did not mean to sound like I was "bagging" the pro sharks. The advice you had to offer me last year was very much appreciated. My overall point is that there are other Quads out there that should be elligable to run in the Junior Class but because of their capicity can not. Do you have any objection to running Pro Sharks against 125cc 4-strokes?
PS, the Pitster Pro's came out in 90cc, 125cc & 155cc. I should be able to downsize to a Pitster Pro 125cc engine if the Pro Sharks can Upsize from 50 to 90cc's.

Please all, not trying to create arguments & make enemies. We need to be completely open minded with regards to these rule changes. You have no argument from me that a Pro Shark running in top condition is a VERY quick quad.
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It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum..................and I'm all out of gum....

[Rotax46]

Just to clarify your point

Quote:

I should be able to downsize to a Pitster Pro 125cc engine if the Pro Sharks can Upsize from 50 to 90cc's.

There is no rule on upsizing however there is a rule on downsizing see rule 22.3.0.4 of the 2010 and 2011 MOMS.
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Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

[michaelh]

OK, so the way to go in future is DONT buy a 150 FXR version, get a 125 or 90 and upsize. Let's see what happens with the rules. Might have to sell the 150 and get a 125 hey? Another crazy rule?
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It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum..................and I'm all out of gum....

[Rotax46]

Quote:

OK, so the way to go in future is DONT buy a 150 FXR version, get a 125 or 90 and upsize.

No, the way to go is to buy a machine that fits within the current rules. Not buy a machine that doesnt fit within the rules then complain about it. The rule not to allow downsizing is there for a good reason and would be way to hard to Police if allowed.

As to upsizing, as long as you retain the original OEM engine cases and frame you can upsize to suit the class.
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Rotax46
Proud member of SA Quad Club.
www.saquadclub.com.au

[michaelh]

OK
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It's time to kick ass and chew bubble gum..................and I'm all out of gum....

[scottydig]

Correct me if I 'm wrong but don't 85cc 2t race against 150cc 4t in the two wheelers !!!!!!!!![Fig.12.16.0.3b]
Now that would be a fair class 90 cc 2t / 150cc 4t junior quad class.

thanks scotty.
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[feralkid]

Thats a shitload different tho. A 85 2 stroke bike will do 115 while a 90 quad would be around 60.
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[jumbo danny]

as bullet stated hang on must read it again nah too hard

we as quad rider don't get treated the same as two wheeler not enough of us, went threw this with side cars, can't imagine how trike riders feel but that again is a different story , look at finke they don't want too many what a joke, more is better may be Mr 47 should let bullet loose on the finke committee we would have heaps more spots to fill


back on topic sorry
rules get interpreted differently buy every body and as far as MA our governing body goes quads are just a pain in the b-m .

we do need change but one or two steps at a time not 40 changes [you can correct me there Mr bullet ]
keep it sort and sweet and relevant to Australia not the USA OR I'll start posting European rule see what goes on there LOL easy there boys
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SA quad & motorcylce club member !
& also a member of SA KIAB racing team .

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[PeteW]

Rotax46 wrote:

[quote} As to upsizing, as long as you retain the original OEM engine cases and frame you can upsize to suit the class.

thats not a real challenge given that they are generic chinese pit bike motors....
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