OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Prokiwi]

Anyone with real world experience on the Commander X as yet ??
Keen to get one but have yet to hear of anyone using them.

Any word on Yamaha new sxs ????????

Cheers
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[Dino]

AussieCaravanRental.com wrote:

Anyone with real world experience on the Commander X as yet ?? Keen to get one but have yet to hear of anyone using them. Any word on Yamaha new sxs ???????? Cheers

Maybe go on one of the Can Am ride days?
We were invited and drove the commander.
It is a nice bit of gear. Plenty $$$ though.
Fossil 700R has one.
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[fossil800R]

Dino wrote:

AussieCaravanRental.com wrote: Anyone with real world experience on the Commander X as yet ?? Keen to get one but have yet to hear of anyone using them. Any word on Yamaha new sxs ???????? Cheers Maybe go on one of the Can Am ride days? We were invited and drove the commander. It is a nice bit of gear. Plenty $$$ though. Fossil 700R has one.

I have the base model 800R. What do you need to know Aaron?, a mate has the 1000X.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

AussieCaravanRental.com wrote:

Anyone with real world experience on the Commander X as yet ?? Keen to get one but have yet to hear of anyone using them. Any word on Yamaha new sxs ???????? Cheers

I think I speculated this to you before Aaron that Kawasaki are trialling next years race technology (new engine/CVT-wetclutch arrangement) in this years Teryx4, so it will have a year running by the time they have resorted their chassis, I think they changed the goal posts after seeing this year releases.

Yamaha were never going to do anything and I suspected the Japanese companies weren't going to invest much when a high court decision was still hanging over them that might see not only the Rhino banned but a lot of other impacts on the vehicle type.

The last of the lawsuits has been defeated, Yamaha Rhino's exhonerated and so I think there will be a mini stampede in the next year or two as Yamaha update what had been a market leader for them for so long and I think a racer and perhaps at least a Honda since they have a workhorse and some good engines. KTM have been a rumour since they have the X-bow working.

Speaking of good engines, Suzuki where are you SV1000 plant being a favorite upgrade for US modifiers.

So there's my call for the years releases ahead (and into next year)
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[Roycroft]

i reckon over the next few years there will be a big offering available.

but remembering rec sxs are a limited market. and would make up a small portion of the sales.

polaris are market leaders now, but only because they have something like 20+ models. from eletric, diesel, 2x4, 4,4 6x6, 900cc, 800cc, down to 400cc i think. im waiting for solar powered.

lets say if suzuki did come out with something, would they sell enough to warrent the investment. i don't think.

Can Am have tested the waters with there commander being a rec/workhorse, just like the yamaha did with the Rhino. and they are selling well.

remember can am and polaris only really do ATV's in otherwords no bikes so any investment by them will normally pay off as they focus on it.

i can't imagine honda/yamaha let alone suzuki would come out with something to radical, because by competing witht the wild cat and the 900xp you limit to dunes, and racing as you can't legally trail ride so that leaves them to come out with numerous models and that costs huge money.
kawasaki in Australia i heard would of been lucky to sell only a handful of terex.

i can't see the japanese investing in products that sell for $10,000-$25000 when the economy can't even sustain selling rec products like ATV's and 2 wheelers that sell below $10,000.
lets face it SXS are not a very cheap toy even off the shelf.

i reckon Can Am or Polaris are going to step it up a little further this year.
i hope i am proved wroung and the japs jump in big.
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[kawboy]

The cases and cylinder heads are larger and different in the new teryx4 than any of the other v-twin kawie atv or sxs motors. Big enough to go to over 1000cc. You can bore the teryx4 cylinders out to 93mm or 900cc. So It looks like kawie will bring a larger cc sxs out in the near future, at least in the US if not here.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

kawboy wrote:

The cases and cylinder heads are larger and different in the new teryx4 than any of the other v-twin kawie atv or sxs motors. Big enough to go to over 1000cc. You can bore the teryx4 cylinders out to 93mm or 900cc. So It looks like kawie will bring a larger cc sxs out in the near future, at least in the US if not here.

Kawasaki had to for the SXS, it was a type of racing they dominated for several years with the Monster team and Kawasaki and Monster are so in together Kawasaki were always going to have to I think and you've got the tech lowdown to prove it.

I believe Kawasaki will be out next year and it will be a straight line charge at being the number one for both track and desert for there may even be two models. Its a neccessity to support their relationship with monster and then it will take them back to the top of the recreational purchasers list.
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[bullet]

More news added 11th Jan.
http://www.rally.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1469&Itemid=223
Can-Am and Polaris are investing that's for sure.
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[fossil800R]

bullet wrote:

More news added 11th Jan. http://www.rally.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1469&Itemid=223 Can-Am and Polaris are investing that's for sure.

Sweet. Hope they get some footage on the box.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Quote:

“We are very keen that this not become cheque book racing and as a result, there will be no engine or transmission modifications allowed and even the alloy wheels have to be stock,â€� he added.

http://www.rally.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1467:canam-and-polaris-go-side-by-side-with-bosch-arc-in-2012&catid=907&Itemid=218

So factory parts at overinflated prices and alloy wheels that will not last a day each in something like a minor impact and can't be repaired??

If its not about cheque book racing just say it has to be alloy wheels with no bead locks and let people choose the component at the cheapest price they can get not overinflated factory prices, this is why a whole aftermarket industry developed in the first place, because of hostage level spare parts pricing.

Not detracting from Polaris in their efforts they have given it a red hot go and 47 have been there as well and good work with ARC. Other parties too have also been involved with CAMS and are racing in other events and series.

In Polaris's case they are building their $$ model around selling you a cheap car and getting profit from accessories, trapping you forever more. Haven't seen or heard of Ca n Am's model but I can tell you the selection of Holz as the aftermarket suspension provider is a mistake for Australian sport.

So for those not yet familiar with the ARC rules Holz Racing in the US have been chosen as the sole provider of an suspension upgrade package for the Can Am to bring them up to a similar sporting specification as the XP. Good to level the playing field.

But Holz is not the only provider of a suspension package and while theirs is not over priced Holz have some stringent rules around their dealership and delivery processes that are going to be passed straight onto the end user including a Can Am factory team that means no $$ will be left in any Australian suppliers hands to recontribute to motorsport.

Holz demand as a dealer that you stock all their product and that they will not drop ship. So lets say if you could talk Holz down to stocking just the Suspension and bed delete kits allowed. Over $12kUSD although you could just get the suspension kit. If anyone wanted to be a dealer and a racer they would have to buy their own parts to upgrade their machine and their team spaers and then have at least a full set of everything ready to go for someone who ordered it.

Now Holz are firm they would hand that back to an Australian dealer and so you'd have to get your parts here and have to pay for shipping to the dealer and then shipping to you (Big whompum) before you got the parts.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out you could by-pass that and get them from another Holz dealer in the US and get them shipped direct, maybe an Australian dealer could get Holz to re-enforce that no Holz dealer ships to Australia, don't know.

In one instance you are going to pay far too much for these parts and spares and in the other instance as Holz has no sponsorship of the ARC not one dollar of that money will go back into the race series or into Australia motorsport anywhere.

Both these models are examples of exactly how this is going to cost you more to race than less under just a guideline instead of these ruling's.

The racing under ARC will be great racing I'd love to have taken part and I'd love to go along and watch and will if possible. But I'm going to have to disagree with the statement at the start of this post, it is cheque book racing that in some circumstances Australia will never see that money back in racing in Australia.

Questions have been sent to the ARC including homologation of new models.


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[fossil800R]

mmm...re read this article over and over again and still can't get any more from it other than the ARC are giving Razr and Commander owners a great opportunity to race as part of the National rally series. They are even asking for stock vehicles with mods only to the roll cage and harnesses to comply. Not sure where Holz come into it or the negativity about aftermarket parts. Or am I missing the point. I for one am excited about the opportunity and if I wasn't 300 years old and had a snail-like race speed I would love to have a crack myself.
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[yogie]

fossil800R wrote:

mmm...re read this article over and over again and still can't get any more from it other than the ARC are giving Razr and Commander owners a great opportunity to race as part of the National rally series. They are even asking for stock vehicles with mods only to the roll cage and harnesses to comply. Not sure where Holz come into it or the negativity about aftermarket parts. Or am I missing the point. I for one am excited about the opportunity and if I wasn't 300 years old and had a snail-like race speed I would love to have a crack myself.

yes you are 300 years old BUT HTFU, have a crack at racing, hell If i can strap myself next to Gav, cable ties the door shut as we race a up a hill and screaming at him to hold the bloody wheel instead of waving the photographers, and all this after a days racing on the quad, then you can, and if you still wont then let the GLW drive and you hold on for dear life.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

Foss you're reading the regs as well as the sub reg's? Just in terms of firewalls mirrors floors(skidplates are referred to there's $3k bought in from OS and you need a spare or two even and I'm not saying they shouldn't have it) etc etc there is a lot more changes required as far as I figured. Its not a minor job to get the cars into shape to take part in the competition.

And lets be right up front this is serious competition costing serious $$ so you want to put your vehicle at least in shape to be competitive. So my point is Foss its going to cost a swag and competitors are being locked into inferior products and supply chain. That sentence says all of what I explained in my initial e-mail.

Then if you choose to race Can Am with the modification to the suspension (That and bed delete will be required to be competitive) all of your money goes overseas to someone who has nothing to do with ARC or racing in Australia.

It surely is an opportunity Foss of that there is no doubt, I think the way you have sized it is a bit wrong yet but and you see even the limited amount of units you can get on the start line A grade comp at nats and you'll see why I have brought up these issues.

As Yogie said, with there being such a no brainer for entry then, have a go.
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[Prokiwi]

damn , all i really wanted to know is how they handle themselves in the trails.... money is only numbers on a wall , not everyone is concerned about the price , especially if they have come from a $250k drag car, or skiing in switzerland every year . Its all relative.


They are only dear in Australia , not every country adds the greed factor we in Aust do , and its not the dealers , its the govt , the importers and everyone who puts a hand in along the way.

My bet is that sxs will overtake quads in the enxt few years as more people find ways to use them that give them more flexibility than what a quad does. Also those of us getting older, usually have more cash to throw around , and like to have a little luxury in our toys.

I am quietly hopeful yamaha and the others will join the race when they see the interest level grow. Its just a shame here in Australia we have all this abundant land , but the greenies want us to save it for our children ....well I DONT HAVE ANY CHILDREN so I would like to use it myself )

Fossil .....ill be in touch .
Thanks for all the feedback though ....
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[fossil800R]

AussieCaravanRental.com wrote:

damn , all i really wanted to know is how they handle themselves in the trails.... money is only numbers on a wall , not everyone is concerned about the price , especially if they have come from a $250k drag car, or skiing in switzerland every year . Its all relative. They are only dear in Australia , not every country adds the greed factor we in Aust do , and its not the dealers , its the govt , the importers and everyone who puts a hand in along the way. My bet is that sxs will overtake quads in the enxt few years as more people find ways to use them that give them more flexibility than what a quad does. Also those of us getting older, usually have more cash to throw around , and like to have a little luxury in our toys. I am quietly hopeful yamaha and the others will join the race when they see the interest level grow. Its just a shame here in Australia we have all this abundant land , but the greenies want us to save it for our children ....well I DONT HAVE ANY CHILDREN so I would like to use it myself ) Fossil .....ill be in touch . Thanks for all the feedback though ....

Yes we got a bit sidetracked hey PM sent
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[bullet]

O yeah... You asked a question...
If you have not driven one, when you do you will probably be quite surprised. Not astonished or anything, but probably more impressed than expected as far as how they suck bumps up. They are very forgiving, and quite predictable, so gaining confidence is easy. They steer off the back nicely too.
The multiple key system is not to be underestimated if you do any sensible operating too. If you do any weed spraying or slow speed work in the 'work key' and 'normal' mode... You will find the fly by wire throttle smoother and easier to operate.
I suppose you've really just got to have a go.
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[SXS Machine Racing Team]

He asked two questions I answered the Yamaha question. Because I cant answer the first question.

Someone mentioned ARC I just let people know what I knew about it I had found out for myself that maybe others didn't and thought about it. Seems a reasonable enough bouncing ball to follow and everyones had a chance to pop up a view. We are a deeply caring band of brothers after all arent we?

I have a deep and abiding support for recreational ATV's as Aaron well knows but it seems responding to a previous post may be a side track so I'll keep that view and actions to myself so as commander handling as the unasnwered question can take precedence and I'm OK with that.
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[Prokiwi]

No worries at all gents , its nice to see some passion .....lol

I'll keep you informed of my decision.....

Just wish Yamaha would get there a into g .....
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[Roycroft]

SXS Machine racing team wrote:

Quote: “We are very keen that this not become cheque book racing and as a result, there will be no engine or transmission modifications allowed and even the alloy wheels have to be stock,â€� he added. http://www.rally.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1467:canam-and-polaris-go-side-by-side-with-bosch-arc-in-2012&catid=907&Itemid=218 So factory parts at overinflated prices and alloy wheels that will not last a day each in something like a minor impact and can't be repaired?? If its not about cheque book racing just say it has to be alloy wheels with no bead locks and let people choose the component at the cheapest price they can get not overinflated factory prices, this is why a whole aftermarket industry developed in the first place, because of hostage level spare parts pricing. Not detracting from Polaris in their efforts they have given it a red hot go and 47 have been there as well and good work with ARC. Other parties too have also been involved with CAMS and are racing in other events and series. In Polaris's case they are building their $$ model around selling you a cheap car and getting profit from accessories, trapping you forever more. Haven't seen or heard of Ca n Am's model but I can tell you the selection of Holz as the aftermarket suspension provider is a mistake for Australian sport. So for those not yet familiar with the ARC rules Holz Racing in the US have been chosen as the sole provider of an suspension upgrade package for the Can Am to bring them up to a similar sporting specification as the XP. Good to level the playing field. But Holz is not the only provider of a suspension package and while theirs is not over priced Holz have some stringent rules around their dealership and delivery processes that are going to be passed straight onto the end user including a Can Am factory team that means no $$ will be left in any Australian suppliers hands to recontribute to motorsport. Holz demand as a dealer that you stock all their product and that they will not drop ship. So lets say if you could talk Holz down to stocking just the Suspension and bed delete kits allowed. Over $12kUSD although you could just get the suspension kit. If anyone wanted to be a dealer and a racer they would have to buy their own parts to upgrade their machine and their team spaers and then have at least a full set of everything ready to go for someone who ordered it. Now Holz are firm they would hand that back to an Australian dealer and so you'd have to get your parts here and have to pay for shipping to the dealer and then shipping to you (Big whompum) before you got the parts. Doesn't take a genius to figure out you could by-pass that and get them from another Holz dealer in the US and get them shipped direct, maybe an Australian dealer could get Holz to re-enforce that no Holz dealer ships to Australia, don't know. In one instance you are going to pay far too much for these parts and spares and in the other instance as Holz has no sponsorship of the ARC not one dollar of that money will go back into the race series or into Australia motorsport anywhere. Both these models are examples of exactly how this is going to cost you more to race than less under just a guideline instead of these ruling's. The racing under ARC will be great racing I'd love to have taken part and I'd love to go along and watch and will if possible. But I'm going to have to disagree with the statement at the start of this post, it is cheque book racing that in some circumstances Australia will never see that money back in racing in Australia. Questions have been sent to the ARC including homologation of new models.

I'm with you.

I believe the rules are a bit tight and loose at the same time. I do however believe it has to start somewhere and this is it. If you want to race you will have to do this. Also remember this is a national event with a national championship. The pinnacle of rally in Australia. This has determined the tight rules and safety regulation in the regs.
If it was just a local event, state event or a sxs the rules would be more relaxed.
I do believe that they have done there best and that at least it will be controlled mods only.

I'm trying to find my way through the loose ends of the rules and I have dozens of questions I am asking of what we can and can't do
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[bullet]

Hopefully i'll be able to tell a bit more about the Commander 1000X soon.
Well as soon as I get in it to warm up for the ARC.

The machines are in getting roll bars right now. CAMS are pretty tough on these specs which is a shame when both Polaris and Commander have ROPS approved cages already.
BRP are basically paying for all the R+D on getting the first machine complied so that anyone else interested can hopefully walk in and get any successive cage built at maybe half the price.
Of course you can build your own to CAMS specs, but if you want one done for you while the production line is rolling... get in touch
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Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[SXS Machine Racing Team]

I hope we get a few more than just the Factory teams running for the Commander so that there is at least a decent amount of rivalry between pro and semi-pro teams.

As well as getting a fantastically turned out show and shine section like pre-Finke so we can get some good pics of it and theres an org called the international SXS site founded and run by Americans even though they have international members as part of their forum that I'd like to post them up on in the Show and shine and in action and stick it up them a little.

Are you doing the wide arm and bed delete kits from Holz?

Anyone got pics at all yet of their pre-race vehicles under development to stick up??
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[bullet]

Jeez, I wouldn't even go so far at to say semi-Pro mate
It's a very new scene in Australia, and it's rally racing, so everybody will be learning a lot.
I think some of the privateers will be in equal shoes and surprisingly fast on the ground.

BRP are doing their best to source Australian product and are getting the tray delete kit made locally by the same bloke who is making the cages.

We will be running the Holz +3 kit (each side) as per the regs to get the Commander Sport 'Rec-Utility' machine closer to the specs of the XP 'Pure Sport' machine.

I passed my Cam's license with 97% yesterday... I can only wish that might translate to driving ability... but I don't think i'll be that lucky

The preparation timeframe is very tight and there are still unknowns, so it will be hard for privateers too.
If anyone is interested in running a Commander, and you are not all sorted... by all means get in touch and we'll see if we can help or at least share what we have learnt and point you at different options.
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Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[fox'n]

Good to see the Can Am is into a fitout.It will be tight to get finished on time with all the rules and regs that need to be adhered too. I would like to think that the organisers will cut competitors a little slack,being that is the first event of its type with a new class,after all ,the more the merrier says me.

Cheers FOX'N

SNAKE SXS TEAM
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[bullet]

I'm guessing that will be the case.
Can-Am and Polaris have put a huge budget into sponsoring the series and getting the SxS class started.
And it is just that 'a start' so I think we'll all get the benefit of doubt where we need it.
If concerned just make your intentions or difficulties known (through either BRP or Polaris) so they can be considered as early as possible.

CAMS have already shown flexibility on the roll cage specification which for SxS will sit somewhere between a 'Schedule J' cage and a 'Buggy' cage.

Bring on the healthy Holden and Ford type rivalry, but really we are all on the same team... CAMS included.
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Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[feralkid]

Don't worry about ability Bullet, "If in doubt, go flat out."
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