OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Dino]

Hi Everyone.

I've been asked to post this up. This request is from numerous individuals and some very pro-active clubs who would like to see some

changes to the Motor Transport Act in Queensland to allow further use of our vehicles within the extensive network of tracks, trails and

dirt roads within our State. It is no silver bullet to fix everything but it is certainly proof that trail riders want a better deal.

Groups are getting organised. Some are incorporated and some not. Many are just 5 or 6 mates who go riding.
What the organising groups are after is just two things at this stage.........

(1) Quad and buggy users to provide input to this proposal through their own viewpoints on this forum thread. This will help finetune the

proposal.

(2) That concerned individuals and groups show support by faxing and emailing the Dept. Of Transport and a new state Govt body called QORF.
QORF has a link below. QORF have several roles which revolve around getting us healthy and helping co-ordinate the various private and

government groups.

Thank You. DINO.



Queensland conditional registration GO10 amendment proposal.

In Queensland we already have legislation that enables recreational use of a Quad motorcycle (ATV), it is Conditional Registration. In the

Queensland Transport website introduction to conditional registration states this is available, for amongst other things, recreational

vehicles, that’s us. We can get conditional registration now for the following group of codes LO3 (Location Limited to a designated area),

LO6 A (designated route) and LO7 (load and unload ATV from transport). Dedicated Quad riders have been testing this system to see how well

it works or doesn’t work. The red tape and the Police’s strong resistance to this system are making it very cumbersome to use. We

sympathize with the Police over the permit issue; they are being asked to take direct responsibility for whatever happens under the permit

which is not their role. The Police ensure we (all QLD drivers) conduct ourselves under legislation. The Police should not be put in a

position of writing stop gap vagaries where there is no clear law, that’s our Parliamentarians’ job. Remember Conditional Registration was

designed for work vehicles used on a temporary basis on public roads in a very controlled environment i.e. road works.

We strongly feel that the Queensland Transport department needs to update the Conditional registration to better suit recreational vehicles

such as quads (ATV) and side x sides(UTV).
Our idea is to apply for a legislation change to the Conditional Registration to include a new category GO10 Quad motorcycles used on

public dirt roads and trails. We recognize the safety issues with off road vehicles with soft long travel suspension and high profile tires

being used on sealed roads. On the odd occasion that we wish to travel on sealed roads we can use the current permit system.
With this in mind we have had a conversation with Lindsay Granger (general Manager of MQ) who is part of the Queensland Transport

Motorcycle Safety Advisory Group. The local Police Traffic branch are focused on enforcing traffic regulations and laws and have advised

that the Transport department guide’s them via legislation, so appear to have little concern with changes.

We feel that GO10 should require a trained operator’s element. This is that ATV’s will need a motorcycle license and UTV’s a car license.

As both these vehicles exceed by large margins normal vehicles rough terrain capabilities they need a special training component let’s call

this Extreme Terrain Training. That is operators need to have a clear understanding of where the safe operating limits are (hill traversing

etc) plus a very much needed environment component (track damage, Flora and Fauna disturbance). The new OH&S Quad requirements for

workplace’s is about to be rolled out, with some slight modification this would suit except it will be too expensive to be workable to

nonprofit clubs. So we would prefer to tailor a course that fits into MQ’s (Motorcycling Queensland) training program. Affiliated clubs

have free access to this service.
Simply put to use the GO10 registration the ATV rider will need a current motorcycle license, UTV a current motor vehicle license and both

having additional enhanced Extreme Terrain and Environment Training.

We can see the big benefits this would have for our community’s health and well being by getting outdoors and exercising. ATV’s and UTV’s

have a very big part to play in this as they are very easy to operate safely. Operators very quickly gain a level of competency that

returns an enjoyable and safe experience that’s both educational (we are always spotting magnificent panoramas) and physical to an

appropriate level suitable for the operator. Not to mention the big plus to the Queenslands’s recreational adventure tourism industries.

Whether it’s more Quad sales and accessories to Quad’s touring, it’s good for the bush and us.

The National Parks can see big advantages as this will give them some chance of regaining control of motorized users in our state forests.

The 2 links below are from Queensland Transport. Current as of 24/9/10 This is what we are given by DOT.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/registration/conditional-registration/recreational-vehicles/cond_rego_trike_quad_offroad.pdf

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/~/media/registration/conditional-registration/conditional-registration-

explained/pdf_guideline_for_conditionally_registered_vehicles_form_number_17.pdf

The Qld.trans dept special rego changes proposal fax number is 07 3253 4110. Ian Mcenan was the Qld.trans guy who rang me regarding my GO10

fax, real nice aproachable bloke but he is not the minister! I would very much like GO10 out there with people changing/adjusting it as

they see fit. It will only make the idea more robust and should not be subjected to my aproval. I certainly am interested in seeing ATV'ers

changes to it as they could be very important changes. Maybe suggest that people post their changes/replies on a forum so we can all have a

look and get a feel for what everyone wants, make adjustment to out thinking and firm up our lobbying so its at least very similar.

This link is for QORF.

http://www.qorf.org.au
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

Last edited by Dino on Wed Oct 13, 2010 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total

[Kymanic]

http://tmr.qld.gov.au/Registration/Conditional-registration/Conditional-registration-explained.aspx
_________________
Aspire to Inspire

[The Jackal]

Thanks Dino... you're a gem...
_________________
TGB 550 Blade with custom paint work
Mad Dog rear ATV bag
Garmin 62s GPS
Icom handheld UHF CB
3000lb winch
Koplin rifle rack
IPL tank bag


Queenslander is a religion. If you're not getting dirty, you're not riding hard enough.

[Earthmover]

So if I lose my license I would not be able to ride my ATV What about 13 year old Maui Girl no more quad riding for her. Also do we need to ride a two wheeler to get this licence or can we ride the ATVHow much cotton wool do we need to wear when we ride?
_________________
If its got wheels I'll drive it!

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrEarthmover

[Dino]

Earthmover wrote:

So if I lose my license I would not be able to ride my ATV That would probably be right. What about 13 year old Maui Girl no more quad riding for her. By the time this would happen, your daughter would be able to drive you to work anyway.Also do we need to ride a two wheeler to get this licence or can we ride the ATV Personally I reckon a car license would do. But, the defensive type of riding a motorbike rider should use certainly applies to riding a quad.[/b] How much cotton wool do we need to wear when we ride? [b]The traffic act currently states the same as a motorbike. Helmet and enclosed footwear. That is the minimum requirement.?

_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Earthmover]

Just tell Anna B that the government will make money out of it and the legislation will be implemented tomorrow
_________________
If its got wheels I'll drive it!

http://www.youtube.com/user/MrEarthmover

[Dino]

And here is our groups own experience with the legislation(s) as it stands.


True case # ONE
Quite often we can get a verbal OK of one or the other to ride in a area BECAUSE we are conditionally registered.
That is either the local Police or the owners/managers.
No problems but not WRITTEN authorisation.

True Case # TWO
To go riding in a gazetted Recreation Area.
This is the process...
Organise and attend a "Pre Lodgement Meeting" where you will be advised of any special requirements in addition to below.......
Obtain written permission from the local Police.
Lodge the this written permission with:
Your Incorporated group's Group Activity Permit Application with PAYMENT.
Your " " Public Liability Insurance details.
Your " " full and final attendance listing.
Your " " Code of Conduct.
Your " " Safety and Contingency Plan.
Your " " Written attending membership details.

And then you wait for 30 plus days for approval. Your application permit fees are NOT big but not refundable. Any access/camping fees are on top of that.
When we had our meeting, DERM advised us that we were the only Quad group to apply for a Group Activity Permit in over 3 years.

This is for each and every ride in those "Rec Areas."

For our group, this is still work in progress.......

So there are the facts. No BS. No Fairy Tales.

As it stands, I believe the 2 different legislations are way too much paperwork to be workable for trailriders, land owner/managers and Police to deal with.
My view is if something like the "GO10" proposals became legislation, then a lot more of us can have a fair go. And that applies to both Incorporated Groups and a few friends going for a social ride, in many more areas than is currently available.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[gazman]

i found a bit more info here at QORF http://www.qorf.org.au/01_cms/details.asp?ID=1087

[Dino]

MAQ had a poll running.

http://www.mqld.org.au/index.php?id=97&id=97&tx_ttnews[tt_news]=3265&tx_ttnews[backPid]=95&cHash=a1e423cb23

And the question is should a car or a bike license be needed for a quad.
Their poll results below.

What kind of licence should Quad riders using Queensland Conditional Registration hold?

Total votes: 34

32.4 % Car Licence 11 votes

67.6 % Bike Licence 23 votes
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

Last edited by Dino on Mon Oct 18, 2010 12:55 pm; edited 1 time in total

[Dino]

FYI

From the TMR, formally Dept Of Transport.

"Quad bike
A quad bike has no specific definitions or rules in the Transport Operations (Road Use Management) Act 1995 or the Queensland Road Rules. A quad bike therefore currently falls under the definition of a car. A class C driver licence is required to ride a quad bike on roads or road-related areas.

Quad bikes are catered for under the conditional registration scheme and require a police permit when ridden on roads or road-related areas. The permit can contain conditions such as compulsory helmet wearing. More information is available on the conditional registration page.

There are many concerns about the dangerous use of these vehicles in a recreational setting. There are also no rules that make helmet wearing compulsory. These vehicles however are often used on private properties where the road rules do not apply. "

This is from their website, below.

http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Registration/Registering-vehicles/Wheelchairs-and-small-devices/Small-vehicles-and-devices/Vehicles-that-require-registration.aspx

And also from TMR........

Please Note:
"NUMBER OF QUAD BIKES ON QUEENSLAND REGISTER
AS AT 30 SEPTEMBER 2010"
Body Desc RegCat desc TOTAL
MOTOR QUADCYCLE COND REGO (LITE VEH) 38
TRIKE/QUAD OFF ROAD COND REG LIMITED 1,546
TRKE/QD OF/RD PRM/PR COND REG LIMITED 265
TRKE/QD OF/RD PRM/PR COND REG ZONE 466
TOTAL 2,315"
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Dino]

Anybody who has been following the "Quads for Cancer" thread in the general interest section would be aware of the set back this great cause has had in QLD.

For those that do not know, QPS ( the QLD Police ) have knocked back Hoody's proposal for the Qld section.

The reason given is that similar cause was also knocked back!!
And then palmed him off to the TMR.

And I'll stick my neck out here and say that if you wanted proof that this legislation needs work, there it is.
If QPS will not make allowances for a legitimate cause like Quads for Cancer,
then what is the chances of them providing written permission to us trail riders?
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[gazman]

the money received from 2315 quad rec rego at $230 (that amount probly not right) is $534,450.Not a bad earner for not much effort.If the guv got a little bit organised and gave us a proper useable rego,they wuold make a bloody fortune !! and they would not even have to build roads or any kind of infrastructure!! HELLOOO, free money!!!
gazman

[dingo tim]

Just grabed my rego certificate its for only 6 months $169.70 and included the one of cost for a number plate, so $240 for a year, gotta be close.
Tim.
_________________
Dingo Tim
FNQuadriders Inc 2010 president
Come on people, get involved and help us sort out Qld.gov.trans messy Rego bog hole!
www.fnquadriders.com

[Kymanic]

Hi, did you guys with Recreational (conditional) rego receive a letter in the mail regarding the places, terms etc where we (quads) can ride ?
If your an individual it looks very very grim unless you own a property or know someone who does..............
If your interested in what was written and didn't receive one, shoot me a PM with your mailing address and I will send a copy (3 pages).
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Aspire to Inspire

[Rossco]

Yeah Kymanic, I received my information paper work yesterday. After reading the information it's quiet evident that our conditional rego covers us for diddly-squat in a state forest That is unless you have the right permits and permission from the right authorites. The ironic part is even when you do have the permits and permission and you were to clean someone up, you may not be covered by your third party. I for one will not be renewing my conditional registration and will proberly be going back to two wheelers. We will still be keeping the quad for when we go to ride parks though.

[Dino]

Yes Kymanic. The letters are apparently being sent to all of us.

A RUMOUR that DERM lost several cases that went to court has been floating around. The RUMOUR suggests that DERM lost key points in these cases because of lack of signage, accepted practise and difficult to find and follow policy. And I will add, a policy which has been quite lax and hardly enforced in the past.

The FACT that Policy and legislation are different is not lost in the courts.

It may be that these letters are due notice, a heads up.

In any case, the policy is DISCRIMINATION. To say no go for quads ( and buggies ) unless you pay extra, be Incorporated, with a Constitution, rules and code of conduct and have exceptional special insurances and written permisions is pretty unfair. DERM have no justifiable reasons which would bear serious legal scrutiny.

Cars, 4WD's and two wheelers have much more freedom, and I am quite prepared to fight for my freedom.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8rqW18GNObA
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Kymanic]

Hey Rossco, I absolutely agree with you 100% mate. I love riding my Rappy but it's really not worth the risk (where i ride) to lose everything i.e house if Im involved in an accident, which could happen anytime. We ride alot of single trails around Johnstone Rd, head-on's with other riders are always a concern. The way I read it, was, if your an individual you cannot apply for a permit.
This situation is ridiculous, I pay the rego, wear all the gear, unlike alot of others I come across out there namely "dudes" on their pit bikes wearing their safety singlet and boardies topped with their oversize Rockstar hat and now I find out I have the same amount of legal/ insurance protection....... NONE.
The DR-Z looks better the more I think about it.
_________________
Aspire to Inspire

[Dino]

Not knocking anyones choice of ride, but 3rd party insurance treats you the same when you and a unregistered rider/driver come together whether you are on a car, 4B, quad or a 2 wheeler...............
Valid registration is the key point.

If DERM would give registered quad bikes the same level of access as registered trail bikes within the forests, a lot of people would be better off.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[Kymanic]

Hey Dino, it's great that you are so passionate about this.
Im going to see the local member, she may know nothing about what's going on, but is worth having a chat to open her eyes and explain the situaution. This is my and alot of others sport/ recreation here. Sure I could buy a 450 and start racing but at 40 and unfit (lol) I'm not real keen too, I just want to play ride with my mates.

Is the big killer between quads (not allowed) and cars,4x4's and road reg trail bikes (allowed access) the ADR compliance ? They have it, we (quads) don't, well my Raptor doesn't, so I won't speak for all quads.
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Aspire to Inspire

[Kymanic]

Yes, you are right in what you wrote about the same level of access between Quad and reg'd trail bikes, people would be better off and clearly understand the rules.
_________________
Aspire to Inspire

[Dino]

Kymanic wrote:

Sure I could buy a 450 and start racing but at 40 and unfit (lol) I'm not real keen too, I just want to play ride with my mates. Is the big killer between quads (not allowed) and cars,4x4's and road reg trail bikes (allowed access) the ADR compliance ?

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Ditto about having a casual trail ride with my mates Kymanic. I'm 50, I don't need/want to race, and at the steady pace I like to ride, I'd need trainer wheels on a trail bike!

No. The killer is the conditional registration. In the eyes of the policy makers, quad bikes are treated the same as tractors, ride-on mowers and bobcats. While trying to get a legal ride under their rules, a couple of things have become apparent during the meetings.
The first thing is that they are dead set against "sports" bikes, like your Raptor.
The second thing is that they believe the system works because no one could be bothered to apply!
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[ozkwik]

The first thing is that they are dead set against "sports" bikes, like your Raptor.
The second thing is that they believe the system works because no one could be bothered to apply![/quote]
makes you wonder where the "sports " bikes comes into . if it has the indercators,horn etc why it should be treated different to a ag quad ....whats the diff ??also pretty sad when they give the thumbs up to a guy with a ole xt yamaha or egual with a plate hanging off it yet quads get turned around .

[Dino]

Too right Ozkwik.
One of our regular riding mates had a 350 Raptor. Barring ground clearance, it was way gentler on the ground than any trail bikes.
( He has changed to a ag quad, and found it easier on his body though. )
And not to forget the 3 tonne 4b's lifted and kitted out with trench digger tyres.
The very nature of our machines, whether 2 or 4wd, are a very gentle machine on the ground.
Some common sense needs applying, whether to the law or policy or both.
Very discriminatory.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.

[ozkwik]

here's a thought been playing on my mind .although a bit out there .you can currently register a home made t bucket type hot rod (which some times are nearly as small as a quad ) ie big v8 jag diff lil fibe glass cab.and have club rego drive on the road to club days and for repairs,has anyone seen if there is a loop hole for quads under that

[Dino]

ozkwik wrote:

here's a thought been playing on my mind .although a bit out there .you can currently register a home made t bucket type hot rod (which some times are nearly as small as a quad ) ie big v8 jag diff lil fibe glass cab.and have club rego drive on the road to club days and for repairs,has anyone seen if there is a loop hole for quads under that

A nice thought Ozkwik, but we are given only the 3 codes listed above and no other choices. Hence the push to get the law, and level of access changed.
But should you ever build a T-bucket with handlebars, and not call it a quad, then you could probably register it as you described.
_________________
Remember. We elect politicians, but we have to deal with bureaucracy.
Notice that crazy in the bureaucrats.