OZ ATV :: The Australian ATV Forum

[Huskygoat]

Well its time to write a submission to update the MA book. I'm doing this my self and not attaching any rubber stamps . Just my 2 cents worth.


Main reason . The crash in NT on the weekend had no need to happen.

All classes need to bought into line with 2008


safety gear

5 hours Training is killing our sport there must be a better way

Ride days / come and try days / rec licenses needs to be opened up as another quad rider in the NT riding a bush track crash broken legs

I know this can be ignored and change is hard but for future of our sport


Huskygoat

Sad when we need a accident to prompt change

[vjcrose]

goat are you looking for input from others as you write this???

Be careful re one of the things that went on - as a MA volunteer he feels he has the RIGHT to abuse whom ever he pleases REGARDLESS of if he has his facts straight. and we all know volunteers are hard to find so MA wont police this issue even if it does make him the most hated man in Australia. Basically he is above the law and he will have all our licenses pulled for not respecting him - but then we get to ..... ...... .. ... ...... cause there is nothing else he can do
_________________
Family is most important.... next is our quads

[Mrs_Gaitar]

What are you looking at writing a submission about....page 192? which bit?

currently the 2009 book "comments on commission minutes" are on the MA site
it is open to everyone, look up dirt track and Juniors and Motocross as they all have sections about quads.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[Mrs_Gaitar]

2008 GCR's the safety gear was changed to discipline specific.
ie in MX you have to race with the safety gear for that discipline
same with speedway and enduro and dirt track.

5 hours of coaching- the only problem I find personally wrong with that, is I feel it should only be done -to get a license, then after that, when a junior upgrades from a 90-110 to a 200-300, not each year..
But as you can see in the commission minutes, thats already been knocked on the head, as many others have suggested it.

Classes? the MX Classes are fine, are you talking about a different discipline than the MX classes already in the book. From the minutes you can see the increase in CC for seniors in Enduro's only for 2009 to cater for the new sized bikes.
If you want lots of different classes- you can do this by adding them in your sup regs as long as they comply with age/cc limits for juniors.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[Huskygoat]

MX726 QUAD CAPACITY
The commission discussed the proposal from
Michael Andrewartha re "support for an
additional quad class"
The commission would like MA to
refer this request to the National
Quad advisory committee for
comments before a
recommendation

This the only one I can find about Quads Mrs Gaitar I suspect this is about the 850cc which is a good thing

Where do you want me start about classes ?

Is it to late for this year ?

This is short version agree or disagree our club can't pass on the communication from MA about this stuff.

1 First time racers will only be allowed to race non competitive nippers untill 5 hours training

Meaning Mr average Joe can rock with his cheap chinese quad get scurtinered saftey gear checked aleast gets a ride instead of getting turned away and never coming back

2 New adult racers must compete in a minimun of 10 racer unless written concent form MA


Meaning Juniors moving to seniors must compete in expert or clubman before going to A Grade.

3 A grade or Pro licenses

Meaning To stop clubman riders who think their pro. racing and getting injured as well as promoters joining classes putting inexperienced riders in with pros and can't take the first corner.

4 the cost of a national license should be less

5 under 150 cc production class

Meaning all entry kids quads as you buy them no mods

6 90cc 2stroke and 160cc four stroke run together

7 90cc 2stroke and 160cc four stroke modified run together

8 A controlled class for junior under 16 quads

Meaning stock 250 machine with exhaust and 2 choices of tires thats it. to create a competition that that Joe the rec rider can come and race and be competitive

9 450 class

10 250 class

11 850 class

12 utility under 501

13 utility over 501

14 Large round traffic lights as flagies with a ambulance button on the back

Meaning Green for Go orange proceed with caution rider down in your section orange flashing means strictly slow down in your section red signal race has been stopped . Two observer's in a tower plus a runner on the ground.

15 prominent officials to wear high vis and position on his back.

UTV class

[Mrs_Gaitar]

I hope this is open for discussion, as its on the forum, I guess it is?
Please dont read my comments as being picky, but adding to the discussion and general questions re your submission.

ok so you want Seniors to be able to come along get a one day licence and race? put them out with the clubman? In seniors you already can, at a club run, just juniors you cant. Check their abilities out in practice, if they arnt ready, they cant continue.

but you wont allow clubman to race with Pro's in an Open event.... Weve done that for 15 years in WA. But our Opens are held with Solo's and within the 8-9 classes, theres only 1 grid of quads. State Rounds theres 2 Grids- 4 classes. If we only had Pro's in Opens, Quads would get cancelled as the pro riders dont go to all the Opens....

In WA we had 17 riders in the 200-300cc 12 -U16 class, your idea would take all those kids off the track and not allow them to ride... or is the 250 class in addition to the one in place?
(We always have kids wanting to ride a 350, but at the end of the day, they end up buying what fits the class, not us changing the rules to try and suit everyone)

90-160..... I know plenty of 90cc honda owners that already push the boundaries with the 5% tolerance , i cringe to think what they would do with 160cc. What bike does the 160 cater for? like an ag /chinese quad?

Maybe the class needs to be Sports / Race ready 90-110cc modified 10 U13
90cc -or eqivalent non sports or race ready- non competitive( there's the option for a one day rec licence) club level only

The Enduro classes definately need to be added to the Enduro section of the book. ie as per Micks suggestion.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[Huskygoat]

what is Micks suggestion? you don't know by what is written .

production class under 16 the existing class stays the new class is for mums and dads who want their kids to race but don't want to spend $30000 per quad because they're got 3 boys in that age group. A 250 Raptor would be a suitable bike for eg.

The problem I have with the current system at current BIKE events.

1 kids can't race until they are 7 ok nippers you say ok the bike riders only let us have classes 5-6 minimum great were in . OK come race day we get 5-7 pros and 5-7 clubmen before you get a chance to scratch, we have a combined class looks great full grid but the 20 quad guys sitting on the fence sometimes with $30000 quads just saw Waldo cut Blake off and visa vesa for the hole race. Do you really think I'm going to get them out there?

I have keen group of juniors of about 30 kids all ages. WE now have 3 cobras that race (we own one) soon to be 4 and a apex . 5 kids quads that lap the rest of the field. All legal no mods Fair I ask where is our sport going to grow, if this continues.



This year Vivian stood up for a womens class we got sponsorship from Polaris and supplied all our quads for other ladies to ride now we get a consistent amount women for their own class.

AS I have a different opinion on Chinese quads than other people I believe these quads allow people to enter our sport that would otherwise go to football. I'm sorry these quads aren't going anywhere and the shear numbers of kids out there riding these machines out back in the scrub with no helmets is amazing. WE provide a safe environment to ride
but MA rules restrict involvement and take away the fun .

Please give me answers and I will put it in writing and send it MA

Huskygoat

[Mrs_Gaitar]

Ive had 2 kids through the 200-300cc class and Neither had a $30K bike... probably $9k tops
so in your sup regs have standard / modified {race together score seperately}

Our club runs, are 2 & 4 wheel junior and senior 10 classes, so senior quads are all in one grid, sounds like your Pro's are different to ours, they are pretty careful of the women and Clubman.... good practice trying to get around them

The chinese bikes we dont see much of, so I dont know an answer...maybe look into minikhana?, then incorporate the 5 hours coaching and work from there.

GoMoto's are really taking off too, maybe entice the fence sitters with their bling bikes to come and ride, they are apparently quite a money spinner, with free one event licences.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[vjcrose]

Mrs_Gaitar wrote:

GoMoto's are really taking off too, maybe entice the fence sitters with their bling bikes to come and ride, they are apparently quite a money spinner, with free one event licences.

my dumb questions for the day - whats a gomoto? and how do you get a free one event licence? is it hidden in the entry cost?

I don't think the answer is stock and modified in the juniors cause the stock cobra is fast. Then next year the KTM racer should be the same looking at the spec's. no aftermarket mods but she's all there...

so then we are back to grading riders but who grades?

We have the same problem here Mrs Gaitar - the bikes don't mind running a class for 3 of their little darlings (so they go round and round for 25minutes) but quads - ah throw em all in together! The only thing that stops them doing that with our jnrs are the MA regs. I know that the two wheeler bike clubs do this across Australia thus it is a federal issue - not restricted to one or two states. If the Ma regs says - pro riders must run separate to gumbies/newbies then the bike club will respect that. if they really need to run only one then perhaps they can put it in their sub regs. I doubt there is a bike club in australia who would state in their sub regs that pro and clubmen can not be combined - so that's not even worth suggesting.

Mrs_Gaitar wrote:

Our club runs, are 2 & 4 wheel junior and senior 10 classes, so senior quads are all in one grid, sounds like your Pro's are different to ours, they are pretty careful of the women and Clubman.... good practice trying to get around them eek

That's exactly why women don't like racing - cause when the pros carefully go past they are incapable of preventing all of their roost - and if you have not experienced a rock bruise on your breast then you are unqualified to comment. so women don't ride (except for those mad as a 2 bob watch) - but then there is never enough women for there own class... catch 22

Our pro are not different in fact I have seen Blake who was winning the race slow down so a slower rider did not get lapped before the checker flag so the slower rider got his full 5 laps of ride time. I have never seen a more considerate rider anywhere on anything and this young man did it not once but twice at one meet.

working with your theory of pro's being careful thus being allowed in the same race as women and clubbies - then hell throw the juniors in too. In reality no one will allow that - why - because the idea is to prevent stupid mistakes and accidents.

how often does a clubman try to block or race the pro and hurt themselves? But I suppose people will say that's his stupidity so it serves him right.

I think the only way this can be fixed is to start our own clubs with our own events...

A few years ago I was talking to a chinese bike seller who said in December (for xmas) each year Darwinites purchase 200-300 50cc's. Granted they aren't a long term investment but they cater to the immediate budgeter. Up here if ya don't bike/quad ya fish... But the cost of the MA cost and strictness blows most budgeters out to the bush - which is bad for the whole sport. strict for safety is great however some monster volunteers as a MA official to get his power thrills.... whose gunna stop him?
MA is Motorcycling Australia and it regulates the whole of Australian racing - not just Vic or WA or Qld or NT we all operate under the same regulations. so it's not a case of any state being behind or in front of another

thanks to those people with the abusive phone calls - please read carefully what people say - no where has it been suggested that Pro riders should have to ride with newbies. The author of this thread actually wants to prevent that.
_________________
Family is most important.... next is our quads

Last edited by vjcrose on Wed Jul 16, 2008 5:07 pm; edited 2 times in total

[old55]

Can some-one tell me what really has prompted this topic, you have an NQAC rep for NT that should have all this in wirting and submitted to him then onto all the other States for those Respective Reps to put to thier members.

There was obviously an incident on the weekend and reading between the lines I would say it has to be a quad race, and differences of opinions have occurred.

I would also refer to MA rep, and would think this would be a MANT (Northern Territoy) representative not actually physically from Motorcycling Australia in Vic. If you have an issue with the MANT rep you put it in writing instead of a forum to the Head Office, which is MA in Melbourne and let them address the issue. Either the Club and or its representatives - but would suggest be very accurate with exactly what happened and backed up by evidence.

GoMoto's are for the beginners/ametuers that have never raced at a controlled event or track, riders that enjoy the bush rides, sand dunes, trail riders and this gives them a chance to ride on an MX Track (usually with no other licensed riders) day format like most club days ie 4 laps each over the period of the day, but in regulated age divisions, ie juniors do not ride with seniors at the same time, to see if this is what they would like to continue in a club atmosphere. The GoMoto days may cost a small entry fee for the Club only, but generally the one day lice's are at no cost.


Cheers

[Huskygoat]

Ok just finished my Submission

Main points

1. Pros to have a class of there own.

2. First time kids be allowed to ride Non competitively.

3. 110 cc 4 stroke changed to 150-160 to even up the racing.

4. 449 cc class what it says

5. Introduction of a U16 production class (along lines of road racing)

6. Introduction of Traffic lights as Flagys (as Go karts and Speedway)


Feel free to discuss these it is only my opionon

Huskygoat

[Huskygoat]

Sorry old55 but I don't think the clubs in NT know about Gomoto's This solves lots of issues trying get more kids on quads. I am going to get it going for sure.

At the NT Titles there are issues Mainly Tim D from Katherine has had a bad accident and we nearly lost him. I have been arguing with officials to separate classes for years . One of the reasons for the new quad club TQA. I am not having a shot at MA . I am a MA supporter but I don't want to go into what happened but if the worst had happened, I just don't know.

I feel Its my duty to try and change some of what happened on the weekend

Prevention's is better than cure.

If I can some how force bike clubs who let quads ride to two classes in two races instead of combining them all the time, Tims accident may have not happened he would have been pissed off he couldn't ride. So that is all I'm trying to achieve.

Huskygoat

Pros race with pros Club men race with Club men

[hammer686]

hey Huskygoat re: pros & clubman are you talking about state rounds or at club level as well? if u apply that to some smaller clubs they wouldn't make a race out of any class just send more riders back to the bush tracks. I think some clubs have to call it as they see it. with regard to the junior classes maybe some but few parents would would buy there kids "chinkas" for racing but most buy for rec use so I think more ride parks & gymkhana type events would be a better path to go down for them. Having said that if your ideas keep 1 person out of a ambulance then good on ya.
_________________
Raptor 700

[OZ_450]

vic state rounds we already seperate classes

also club level we have 2 women , 4 clubman , 1 expert and 1 pro all in one race and most club level all riders know one another so if your clubman guy up there are cutting of pros well i think you dont seem to have much comaradery up that way and also if the rider was cutting off the pro maybe your ma officials and others were not do their job to control the racing as they are in charge of all races

also the juniors moving to adults having to do 4 rounds in expert that would depend on rider skill really as we already have one junior who moved up and he has proven he is worthy of the challenge and i know of 1 and possibly 2 more down here when they are old enough they will be not far of the pace also
_________________
black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[Huskygoat]

OZ 250 Looks like I need to read the rule book and start enforcing rules. Please tell me where it says 4 expert races before pros. what page?

As for comaradery is exactly what this all about ! Not putting our friends in a position where they can get hurt. Not because Pros cut them off because riders are riders and ride classes above their ability as you have probably experienced yourself.

You can twist this any way want but pros should race with pros . I'm not picking on pros. I see this all the time and you are guilty of it. Give Pros a licence. Supercross riders have to and our pro riders are more skilled than them. Put into place at BIKE EVENTS where Quads race , call it what you want , you will get more clubman riders this way and they ride within their ability and be safer.

This accident has been coming for a long time . Just our bike cousins have more numbers.

There are lots of other reasons why Tim was on the track that afternoon and one of these is that I didn't stand up for my comrade and say Tim your not good enough to out there. Instead we needed numbers (wrongly or rightly) Now the 42 yo father of 3 junior quad riders is still in a coma on life support.

Any way if I'm wrong, Fair enough

A debate openly is needed for a solution

Huskgoat

[vjcrose]

Goat - give up

Quad riders don't want to help each other


Bike riders will continue to combine classes regardless of logic or safety



we can't ride when we are dead

_________________
Family is most important.... next is our quads

[Barney]

HI Guys im not sure when this accident happened but hey put some details up or something cos i am willing to put a few bucks towards the family if it will help in any way or pm me ,,

To hear a dad of 3 is in hospital in a coma made my eyes water
_________________
2012 Can am Outlander Xt 1000cc
Can Am Full set of Armour ,Grip and thumb warmer
Fox Podium Shocks and springs front and back
GME Tx 4600 UHF with Helmet Mic
Hema Gps

[Mrs_Gaitar]

How can you say we dont want to help each other, when all of us are offering advice, trying to offer solutions, share information about whats happening in other states? its good for the sport to know whats happening.

I just called MWA and asked whether all states run GoMoto events, they said, in your state it may be called "Come & Try" same format, its to promote our sport, which in turn usually brings new memberships to clubs.

I wish Tim and his family all the best, I hope he makes a full recovery and our thoughts are with you all, not the best to see anyone hurt.
_________________
www.waquadmx.com

[OZ_450]

excuse me if i am wrong but seems NT is only state with this issue ???? as WA and VIC havent had this combined problem ?????

so before you ask a debate maybe NT needs to adopt the other states ways
_________________
black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport

[Trud]

Hey Husky Goat

My heart sank when i read that this father is on life support in a coma

Please let us know how Tim and his family are going and please let them know we are thinking of them.

The Van Vliet Fleet
Victoria

[Gravedigger]

Huskygoat, our thoughts are with Tim, his family and evryone involved, I personally felt sick to hear of a fellow quader being involved in such an accident and injured so terribbly. Please if there is anything that can be done to help out don't hesitate.

On the issue of different levels of rider skills/abillities becoming dangerous I could not agree with you more. I don't beleive that NT is alone in this area and this issue was the reason a number of riders did not ride at the NATS in Newry ( Sale/Maffra ) in Vets class last year 2007. I also beleive that it is becoming a bit of a concern for some Vets riders competing in the Tri-State Series & Vic State 8 Series this year as the class has become so much more popular. People say just fix it by age groups but I think it really needs to be done on a grading basis for the safety of all and the development and growth of the sport.

Dean Poke, Dianne & Cooper.

[triple"A"]

hey goat you are absolutely right in trying to run classes that have similar calibre riders in them, and not mix pro's with beginners
that's why we run most of our meetings either stand alone quadriders sa only or hook up with qrcv on occasion to run quads only
when you have to run with solos etc. there is too much time restriction to fit all classes in, so people start mixing grades to get everyone a ride
i think for the most part though, people are trying to help each other out, not the opposite. speaking of which, i agree with grizzly, let's get a bit of fundraising happening for the family involved in the unfortunate incident you refer to. if you want to do a raffle as per the one the vics did for deane poke i'm up for donating prizes, if not, then send me details whereby i can donate some cash.
i know money doesn't make the pain go away, but it's one way those of us that are not directly involved, can help

[hammer686]

adelaideplantandequipment wrote:

i agree with grizzly, let's get a bit of fundraising happening for the family involved in the unfortunate incident you refer to. if you want to do a raffle as per the one the vics did for deane poke i'm up for donating prizes, if not, then send me details whereby i can donate some cash. i know money doesn't make the pain go away, but it's one way those of us that are not directly involved, can help

+1 to that! I'll be in.
_________________
Raptor 700

[bullet]

Hi goat,
Have a look at last years nationals lap times.
The fastest Clubman might have pulled a lap faster than the slowest Pro.

Who assess this.
Who is a Pro and when do they get there.

If Pros are banned from lower classes... In SA we 'might' just be banning one rider or making him ride by himself.

Are Pros like Ant Yewers allowed to run in just Vets the year he chosses to semi retire.
There are plenty of Vets that might be slower than Clubmen.

Have a look at the Nationals Lap times... your rule suggestions might not achieve much.

I've run a 130cc bike SA's top riders in a Stadium MX event and placed 3rd out of 9.
As OZ_450 said, there a few juniors that can step straight into Pro's and even win in a strong field.

It's a tough one mate.

Maybe run shorter races so it is impossible for Your Pro rider to consistently lap a less experienced riders.
Race laps could be adjusted after assessing practice on the day.

We don't know all of the facts on the day that you guys experienced Tims tragedy.

Best of luck.
_________________
Can-Am X Team
Bullet #Y12. MrsB #Y18.

[OZ_450]

hey goat

the raffle idea fundraiser is a great thing after we ran Deans we were surprised with the backing and support

i am willing to assist in any info you need but am limited with help as im a long way away but that said if you decide to run a raffle am willing to have you send some books down and sell tickets no problems at all

Brad
_________________
black covered in 5.7 powered oversize quad
model vx ss 350 hahaha
enough bass to compensate for lack of skills
Empty Wallet Racing proudly on track for GM Motorsport